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zorghyh

What you think about the rules and punishment system? And what can be better?

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I feel this :( 9members of my team included me got banned for helping each other and the reason is RMT even we dont involve real money trading we just helping each other and now our team is disbanded because of this accused . so sad but need to accept :(

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12 minutes ago, GodofKawaii said:

then they just aren't ready to run an MMO

Don't get me wrong I side with staff. I'm just saying that explaining to a criminal (that knows he's a criminal) that he is indeed a criminal is a waste of time imo. Especially when the facts are stone cold.

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3 minutes ago, xFvvCk said:

I feel this :( 9members of my team included me got banned for helping each other and the reason is RMT even we dont involve real money trading we just helping each other and now our team is disbanded because of this accused . so sad but need to accept :(

Rmt doesn't just involve trading of real money, it involves anything outside of the game exchanged for smth in the game. It can be a service of some kind or the exchange of another game's goods for this one. Unfortunately in your case account sharing is also prohibited for obvious reasons. Big No-No!

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34 minutes ago, Goku said:

A lot of people also complain about their ban appeals that take a while

There is actually a good reason for that. While there are indeed piles of appeals each day, there is also the process of re-evaluation, which usually takes one or more other staff than the attendee to convey with the guy who gets banned. If you multiply that to, lets say 20-30 appeals (some of them being more annoying than most and can stall for an hour even tho its 100% justified) it can take a whole lot of time. Not to mention really tiresome on the mind after extended periods of time devoted to that with nothing in return. 

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2 hours ago, Desu said:

We already regularly show chat excerpts in reply to appeals for chat/behavior based punishments.

I can vouch for this, the one time I got muted, I asked the one that muted me for proof, and he gave and explained me why.

__
About the current system.

Chat mutes/bans, shouldn't be given out of a screenshot, without knowing the context of that screenshot, by that I mean, they should be given by those able to access logs and check the entire convo, so you can see if the other person reporting, is also engaging in the same toxic convo.

About bans in general, I don't really see a need to show you proof, much less if they found out you botting or RMTing, both are somewhat pretty obvious. People should still be able to appeal them, but need to understand that, it's hard to lie when they have the logs, no you're most likely not innocent.

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2 hours ago, Desu said:

We already regularly show chat excerpts in reply to appeals for chat/behavior based punishments.

Good to read this, but i think important show something in other cases too. The staff may clear doubts about the ban if they give some explanation with evidence in other cases too, to the player can refute or not. Like you talk about RMT, i have a example of these, who may be cleared with the system of  transparency:

 

"I feel this, 9members of my team included me got banned for helping each other and the reason is RMT even we dont involve real money trading we just helping each other and now our team is disbanded because of this accused . so sad but need to accept"

 

If they really trade money the evidence is irrefutable. So, showing evidences in the ban, with date and resume of how this happen exactly can be a best way to separate real appeals of players who just want justify errors. And in the case of botting, how sayed up for someone, the recaptcha is perfect. Is just a ideia.

 

And thanks agains for leave this discussion open, this is important to the community.

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I dont see that example before, so sorry for repeat it here. But is to ilustrate what i tryed say.

Edited by zorghyh
edit language

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1 hour ago, Goku said:

I feel like most bans are beyond justified because some players are so blatantly obvious that giving them an explanation or a piece of evidence of what they did wrong is a waste of time even when they themselves know they fcked up but are still trying to look for a loophole after they're caught. A lot of people also complain about their ban appeals that take a while, but they just aren't aware of how many appeals there are that staff need to work through. I can imagine it's a boring and tedious procedure.

most of the mutes/bans for chatrelated incidents i've experienced or seen from other people vary from harsh to unjustified. if you give out the logs that broke the rules, at the time of getting punished, you will see less appeals. 

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2 minutes ago, Minks said:

if you give out the logs that broke the rules, at the time of getting punished, you will see less appeals. 

Is what i'm trying say here.

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I want show this article who talk about court rules to games online: https://luizranselmo.jusbrasil.com.br/artigos/365181808/jogos-online-e-os-banimentos-impostos-pelas-empresas-aos-jogadores 

They say here something like this: 

 

"It should be noted that because it is a consumer relationship, the consumer has by his side the "inversion of the burden of proof", which means that if the person is a customer (player) of the company (game), and had its account banned, FIT THE COMPANY to prove that the ban is legitimate, and that it was a REASONABLE measure to be applied, and it was not excessive and did not cause great harm to the consumer.

When the legitimacy of the ban and its real necessity are not proven, the Player is entitled to have his account released immediately, and also an indemnity for moral damages due to poor rendering of services."

 

So, is a court rule of consumer relantionship and it need be answered, is better to decrease the cases of appeals yet, good for the staff. Think about it.

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6 minutes ago, zorghyh said:

.

Well, if you do happen to have your own game or managing your own staff, feel free to do so. You cant really dictate what people should do here simply because its not within your best interest. You made a mistake and paid the price for it, either own up or prove that u haven't done it. Incase of RMT, it is really easy to prove if you haven't.

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3 minutes ago, Malorne said:

Well, if you do happen to have your own game or managing your own staff, feel free to do so. You cant really dictate what people should do here simply because its not within your best interest. You made a mistake and paid the price for it, either own up or prove that u haven't done it. Incase of RMT, it is really easy to prove if you haven't.

No, i didnt RMT, i dont have any talk about RMT in the forum before this thread, and my history is clear of RMT, and i dont dictade anything, i just trying show an ideia with this community showing arguments. But thanks for join the discussion. You can see this in all my talks.

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37 minutes ago, zorghyh said:

No, i didnt RMT, i dont have any talk about RMT in the forum before this thread, and my history is clear of RMT, and i dont dictade anything, i just trying show an ideia with this community showing arguments. But thanks for join the discussion. You can see this in all my talks.

If you have a clean slate like you stated above ^ and that you aren't banned then why are you complaining? Botting and RMT is out of the question. If you got caught it's over. Staff don't perma ban people for free. They need a suffice amount of evidence before they ban a player and it's not just 1 staff doing it. It's like they all investigate and go through evidence before making a final decision.

 

2 hours ago, Minks said:

most of the mutes/bans for chatrelated incidents i've experienced or seen from other people vary from harsh to unjustified. if you give out the logs that broke the rules, at the time of getting punished, you will see less appeals. 

I can agree with chat mutes and stuff like that being a bit harsh in 'some' cases but we must keep in mind that there are kids playing this game that we must consider before posting content that we think is totally fine but might be still harmful to them. Usually I see staff warn players before they issue out mutes. Like "Keep the chat appropriate" or "That's enough now". I've seen it countless times and players just ignore and then they complain after being muted.

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11 minutes ago, Goku said:

If you have a clean slate like you stated above ^ and that you aren't banned then why are you complaining? Botting and RMT is out of the question. If you got caught it's over. Staff don't perma ban people for free. They need a suffice amount of evidence before they ban a player and it's not just 1 staff doing it. It's like they all investigate and go through evidence before making a final decision.

Well, i dont need be banned for this to talk about transparency, is just a right of everybody. I agree with you about the amount of evidences, and the work of staff, and how this things are bad to the game, but the transparency is a right. Is need know why you are being punished and what they have to punishe you, to be able appeal propertly or accept the guilt proved. Nobody here are talking about no punishe, just about transparency. Thanks for your talk.

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35 minutes ago, Goku said:

If you have a clean slate like you stated above ^ and that you aren't banned then why are you complaining?

can't complain about murder if u haven't been murdered, seems right to me

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3 hours ago, Malorne said:

There is actually a good reason for that. While there are indeed piles of appeals each day, there is also the process of re-evaluation, which usually takes one or more other staff than the attendee to convey with the guy who gets banned. If you multiply that to, lets say 20-30 appeals (some of them being more annoying than most and can stall for an hour even tho its 100% justified) it can take a whole lot of time. Not to mention really tiresome on the mind after extended periods of time devoted to that with nothing in return. 

bruh thats the worst excuse, gms do literally nothing other than managing the ban appeals and banning people when the mods ask them to, there are like 5 of them iirc and following your line of thought 20-30 per day should be just fine,  also if you can't with 5 people just hire more competent people???? trust me it wouldn't take more than a hour per day to answer 5 appeals, if you don't have time to do gm stuff then you shouldn't be a gm in first place

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13 minutes ago, Foersterr said:

bruh thats the worst excuse, gms do literally nothing other than managing the ban appeals and banning people when the mods ask them to, there are like 5 of them iirc and following your line of thought 20-30 per day should be just fine,  also if you can't with 5 people just hire more competent people???? trust me it wouldn't take more than a hour per day to answer 5 appeals, if you don't have time to do gm stuff then you shouldn't be a gm in first place

And if you don't have time to follow the rules you agreed to, then you shouldn't play the game in the first place.

 

42 minutes ago, JLxKaos said:

can't complain about murder if u haven't been murdered, seems right to me

Ohhh I suppose you can complain about anything. Guess it's just a common thing when a player or his friends get caught cheating and they can't do anything about it. If you catch my drift ;)

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22 minutes ago, Foersterr said:

bruh thats the worst excuse, gms do literally nothing other than managing the ban appeals and banning people when the mods ask them to, there are like 5 of them iirc and following your line of thought 20-30 per day should be just fine,  also if you can't with 5 people just hire more competent people???? trust me it wouldn't take more than a hour per day to answer 5 appeals, if you don't have time to do gm stuff then you shouldn't be a gm in first place

Sure, pay me a good amount of $ per hour and i'll answer 200 appeals per day. The duties listed are done in people's free time. Also GM's have variety of duties, just the punishment distribution is the common one.  There are also certain types of bans that require SGM or DEV to access logs of specific players depending on the offense. Its quite ignorant to think every single GM has unlimited time or access to cater to our every need and have to be completely at our disposal.

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1 minute ago, Goku said:

And if you don't have time to follow the rules you agreed to, then you shouldn't play the game in the first place.

so what are you suggesting exactly? that the ban appeal section shouldn't exist? because if you are going to imply that EVERY ban is fair, then what is the point of complaining about them? people should be treated as innocent until the contrary is totally proven, but apparently you are one of those guys that really believe that staff never make mistakes even tho they assume they do, guess you shouldn't have been unbanned then lol

3 minutes ago, Malorne said:

Sure, pay me a good amount of $ per hour and i'll answer 200 appeals per day. The duties listed are done in people's free time. Also GM's have variety of duties, just the punishment distribution is the common one.  There are also certain types of bans that require SGM or DEV to access logs of specific players depending on the offense. Its quite ignorant to think every single GM has unlimited time or access to cater to our every need and have to be completely at our disposal.

yes and unicorns exist

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If u don't write any religious , racist or pedo things and if u don't use real money in-game , nobody can ban u .

 

It's ok if u talk about someone's mother or sister as long as there is no bad word (even though meaning is bad). code of conduct doesn't care those. and if u say to mods, they will tell you "block them. ignore them" 

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46 minutes ago, Foersterr said:

so what are you suggesting exactly? that the ban appeal section shouldn't exist? because if you are going to imply that EVERY ban is fair, then what is the point of complaining about them? people should be treated as innocent until the contrary is totally proven, but apparently you are one of those guys that really believe that staff never make mistakes even tho they assume they do, guess you shouldn't have been unbanned then lol

yes and unicorns exist

I simply suggested get off your high horse and don't expect staff to tell you it's going to be okay darling we'll work it out ffs. Get real dude. You were just a mod so you prob never worked on cases yourself. Yeh so if you caught someone in the act and know he's guilty you should treat him like a princess lmfao. You don't live in a fantasy. If you get banned that means there is already more than enough incriminating evidence. I never said all but most bans are justified. Yeh I'm one of those rarest thx mate ;-)

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I've not known one single instance of any game showing anyone the evidence gathered proving a breach of ToS on the part of the player because it makes it too easy to see what you did to get caught, which is not something that anyone wants. Just like Desu said. They aren't going to show you how to break ToS. It is clearly stated in the ToS that the burden of proof is on you to show you never took part in any RMT and, in cases of botting, were actually in full control of your character at the time. If you fail to do so then your ban will be upheld. Sorry about your luck, but that's how it is and that's how it's always been. It's not going to change just because people complain that it's not fair that they don't get to see evidence gathered against them.

 

1 hour ago, Foersterr said:

bruh thats the worst excuse, gms do literally nothing other than managing the ban appeals and banning people when the mods ask them to, there are like 5 of them iirc and following your line of thought 20-30 per day should be just fine,  also if you can't with 5 people just hire more competent people???? trust me it wouldn't take more than a hour per day to answer 5 appeals, if you don't have time to do gm stuff then you shouldn't be a gm in first place

Bro, I know for a fact you know better than this considering I GMd while you were on staff. Don't go around acting like you know what GMs do all day. You were never a GM in the first place. Bans only get issued in instances where they are warranted. No one, and I mean absolutely no one, gets banned simply because a Global Mod or CM asks a GM to ban them and you know this. Don't talk about stuff you know nothing about.

Edited by XelaKebert

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1 hour ago, XelaKebert said:

Bro, I know for a fact you know better than this considering I GMd while you were on staff. Don't go around acting like you know what GMs do all day. You were never a GM in the first place. Bans only get issued in instances where they are warranted. No one, and I mean absolutely no one, gets banned simply because a Global Mod or CM asks a GM to ban them and you know this. Don't talk about stuff you know nothing about.

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Edited by Malorne

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Just now, Goku said:

That oof moment lmfao xDD

oof is an understatement, that shit was an old school "know your damn place"

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