Goku Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Malorne said: oof is an understatement, that shit was an old school "know your damn place" Xela doesn't like to play nice x"DD Link to comment
zorghyh Posted October 18, 2019 Author Share Posted October 18, 2019 Well, if that's how they treat a ex-staff who contributed with the community, this is worrying. Unfortunately. Let's try to get back to the focus of discussion, which is knowing people's opinions, and not force any opinion, like someone sayed. Link to comment
Malorne Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, zorghyh said: Well, if that's how they treat a ex-staff who contributed with the community, this is worrying. Unfortunately. Let's try to get back to the focus of discussion, which is knowing people's opinions, and not force any opinion, like someone sayed. I mean, if the ex-staff is being a smartass u dont really treat them cupcakes... Zehkar 1 Link to comment
zorghyh Posted October 18, 2019 Author Share Posted October 18, 2019 6 minutes ago, Malorne said: I mean, if the ex-staff is being a smartass u dont really treat them cupcakes... I think you wouldn't talk to staff like that for certain reasons. So i don't think it's right to talk to anyone like that. Let's make a respectable discussion here, please. Link to comment
Malorne Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 Just now, zorghyh said: I think you wouldn't talk to staff like that for certain reasons. So i don't think it's right to talk to anyone like that. Let's make a respectable discussion here, please. The discussion is pretty much over tho... idk what else u can make something out of this. Link to comment
XelaKebert Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, zorghyh said: I think you wouldn't talk to staff like that for certain reasons. So i don't think it's right to talk to anyone like that. Let's make a respectable discussion here, please. He's talked to me like that plenty of times, even when I was on staff. Some of it justified, some of it not. Goku and Zehkar 2 Link to comment
zorghyh Posted October 18, 2019 Author Share Posted October 18, 2019 (edited) Malorne, Is you who are saying this. The discussion is to the whole community, lets wait to see the others opinions, just is it. Edited October 18, 2019 by zorghyh edit language Link to comment
Malorne Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 1 minute ago, zorghyh said: Malorne, Is you who are saying this. The discussion is to the whole community, lets wait to see the others opinions, just is it. damn son, if we wait for the whole community to put something in, we gonna be here for atleast 20 years. Zehkar and Dibz 2 Link to comment
xFvvCk Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 7 hours ago, Goku said: 7 hours ago, xFvvCk said: ALL OF THE MODERATOR / GM'S DONT WANT TO PAY HIGH $ TO RELEASE THIS GAME IN IOS xD THEY ONLY WANT $ . Link to comment
Desu Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, xFvvCk said: ALL OF THE MODERATOR / GM'S DONT WANT TO PAY HIGH $ TO RELEASE THIS GAME IN IOS xD THEY ONLY WANT $ . XelaKebert, Bestfriends, Dibz and 8 others 10 1 Link to comment
XelaKebert Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Goku said: Xela doesn't like to play nice x"DD Me? Mean? Never. Link to comment
Ultrajesus Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, Goku said: RMT is out of the question. If you got caught it's over. Staff don't perma ban people for free. They need a suffice amount of evidence before they ban a player and it's not just 1 staff doing it. It's like they all investigate and go through evidence before making a final decision I have a a friend that was permabanned cuz "RMT", he then went and appealed the ban because he didn't understood why he was banned. The next week a SGM responded, showing him a screenshot of his mailbox receiving a mail with 6m $ from a person with a large historial of Rmt. Then he replied saying that he obtained the 6m pokeyen of that person because said person organized a tournament with that 1st place prize and uploaded it to Youtube, and of course he won the tour and received the money. The Smg watched the proofs of his innocence unbanning him immediately and now he's happily playing the game. TL;DR: Don't quit appeals, staff is not perfect. Change da world, my final message. Good bye. Edited October 19, 2019 by Ultrajesus Damn Google Joanella, zorghy, JLxKaos and 2 others 5 Link to comment
zorghyh Posted October 18, 2019 Author Share Posted October 18, 2019 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Ultrajesus said: I have a a friend that was permabanned cuz "RMT", he then went and appealed the ban because he didn't understood why he was banned. The next week a SGM responded, showing him a screenshot of his mailbox receiving a mail with 6m $ from a person with a large historial of Rmt. Then he replied saying that he obtained the 6m pokeyen of that person because said person organized a tournament with that 1st place prize and uploaded it to Youtube, and of course he won the tour and received the money. The Smg watching the proofs of his innocence unbanning him and now he's playing happily the game. TL;DR: Don't quit appeals, staff is not perfect. This is why i think important the need of transparency, we can appeal propertly. Thanks Jesus! Edited October 18, 2019 by zorghyh edit language Link to comment
XelaKebert Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 6 hours ago, zorghyh said: This is why i think important the need of transparency, we can appeal propertly. Thanks Jesus! He literally just said the appeal was approved because the user in question was able to prove their innocence. Transparency doesn't fix the fact that the burden of proof is on you to show you did not engage in RMT or botting. How can you say you can't appeal properly when it literally, "Hey I was banned for botting/RMT but I wasn't botting or RMTing. Here's my proof." Then you show your proof. I mean, I literally wrote your ban appeal in 2 sentences, now you need to show proof of your innocence. Desu has already said they won't be showing you anything that would result in giving away capture methods for botting and RMT. This is a standard thing. Never compromise your rule enforcement system because someone is salty about enforcement action taken against them. razimove and Goku 2 Link to comment
razimove Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 32 minutes ago, XelaKebert said: He literally just said the appeal was approved because the user in question was able to prove their innocence. Transparency doesn't fix the fact that the burden of proof is on you to show you did not engage in RMT or botting. How can you say you can't appeal properly when it literally, "Hey I was banned for botting/RMT but I wasn't botting or RMTing. Here's my proof." Then you show your proof. I mean, I literally wrote your ban appeal in 2 sentences, now you need to show proof of your innocence. Desu has already said they won't be showing you anything that would result in giving away capture methods for botting and RMT. This is a standard thing. Never compromise your rule enforcement system because someone is salty about enforcement action taken against them. I mean, to be fair, looking at the other side of the coin, you're most likely to prepared to fight agaisnt such accusation and have no viable proof if you arent innocent. But yeah, other than that I agree with what you said. Link to comment
Stickbow0 Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 Personally, I think some people deserve bans/mutes and its fair. For example, anyone who scams other people out of money or pokemon deserves a ban. Other people, however, get muted or banned for in my opinion silly reasons like they made a "offensive" joke. I've seen entire discussions about vampires and Trump (and sometimes both together) yet one small Dracula joke can get people banned. Basically, I say keep the bans/mutes for those who deserve them like scammers. zorghy 1 Link to comment
Lavalu Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, XelaKebert said: He literally just said the appeal was approved because the user in question was able to prove their innocence. Transparency doesn't fix the fact that the burden of proof is on you to show you did not engage in RMT or botting. How can you say you can't appeal properly when it literally, "Hey I was banned for botting/RMT but I wasn't botting or RMTing. Here's my proof." Then you show your proof. I mean, I literally wrote your ban appeal in 2 sentences, now you need to show proof of your innocence. Desu has already said they won't be showing you anything that would result in giving away capture methods for botting and RMT. This is a standard thing. Never compromise your rule enforcement system because someone is salty about enforcement action taken against them. He literally just said the SMG showed proof (the screenshot) first, that's why they could prove their innocence. It would be unfair otherwise; how can you proof something you haven't done. "Hey I was banned for RMT but I wasn't RMTing." "Okay, show proof you weren't." "?" You can't appeal properly in this situation, that's why there always should be transparency in the sense of, you accuse someone you proof it. There should only be a few exceptions, and RMTing definitly can't be one of it. By claiming that "Hey I was [...] botting or RMTing. Here's my proof." is a proper appeal, you ignore that the banned person is not able to show proof. - There is a fair point that they can't show everything if there's a risk of exposing capture methods, but that doesn't change the idea of presumption of innocence (Art. 6 ECHR). Reading this thread really makes me think more people should study law lol. Edited October 19, 2019 by Lavalu Dibz, Minks, zorghy and 2 others 5 Link to comment
Malorne Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 2 hours ago, Lavalu said: He literally just said the SMG showed proof (the screenshot) first, that's why they could prove their innocence. It would be unfair otherwise; how can you proof something you haven't done. Yeah, u're not really getting an explanation publically for that one xD But there is a really easy way to prove that, and that is keeping chat logs of person-to-person trades. Especially if the convo has taken place outside of the game, that way you can clear any suspicion of RMT. Regardless, that only applies to ppl who haven't done so. Dibz 1 Link to comment
Gunthug Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 Holy shit did someone just try to apply the ECHR to moderation on a knock off pokemon game? Dibz and OrangeManiac 2 Link to comment
zorghyh Posted October 19, 2019 Author Share Posted October 19, 2019 So, are you saying that because it is an unofficial game, players not have right of full defense, or to know exactly why they are being indicted, beyond the generic accusation of the ban? Interesting. Thanks again for your talks, this discussion is important to the community. Link to comment
Gunthug Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 50 minutes ago, zorghyh said: So, are you saying that because it is an unofficial game, players not have right of full defense, or to know exactly why they are being indicted, beyond the generic accusation of the ban? Interesting. Thanks again for your talks, this discussion is important to the community. I’m saying the seriousness of getting your account muted or banned on a privately run pokemon fan game is so many leagues of magnitude less than that of the kinds of atrocities the ECHR was drawn up to address, and the comparison is fucking hilarious. Carry on with your quixotic discussion though, I’m sure the devs moderation has a real impact on their bottom line Dibz 1 Link to comment
Dibz Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 Is it really that hard to screenshot agreements involving transfers that can be misinterpreted as RMT? It's a precaution you should take when there's any risk involved in a trade, whether it's to avoid getting banned or scammed. 5 hours ago, Gunthug said: I’m saying the seriousness of getting your account muted or banned on a privately run pokemon fan game is so many leagues of magnitude less than that of the kinds of atrocities the ECHR was drawn up to address, and the comparison is fucking hilarious. Carry on with your quixotic discussion though, I’m sure the devs moderation has a real impact on their bottom line Ok but what if I wanna escalate my ban appeal to the Federal Court? Gunthug and zorghy 2 Link to comment
Koushi Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 3 hours ago, Dibz said: Is it really that hard to screenshot agreements involving transfers that can be misinterpreted as RMT? It's a precaution you should take when there's any risk involved in a trade, whether it's to avoid getting banned or scammed. Ok but what if I wanna escalate my ban appeal to the Federal Court? Yes and after you will call the police because a player scammed you? Link to comment
razimove Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 22 minutes ago, Koushi said: Yes and after you will call the police because a player scammed you? What Koushi 1 Link to comment
Malorne Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 9 hours ago, Dibz said: Ok but what if I wanna escalate my ban appeal to the Federal Court? You'll either get very judgemental looks or cause a huge laughing fit. Either way its gonna be humiliating for you Link to comment
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