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Caliginosus

Gen 8's effect on Pokemmo

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Hey guys,

Probably won't be too impactful but might as well start something to discuss.

So is there any info as how gen 8 will affect us?

Are eventual base stat boosts going to be taken over by default and then sorted out afterwards? Or will each case be looked at individually from the beginning?

Same for move and Abilty changes. 

How was it approached in the past?

After watching a lot of non Pokemmo comp vids the last days I'm really glad eg that we're not playing with the new Knock Off. 

Did Pokemmo ever run with the op Knock Off?

 

Cheers!

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I do not think it affects much, in pokemmo you can not put movements or skills beyond the fifth generation, maybe the stats, but I doubt that happens, since the eighth generation games do not include all the pokemon, and in the case that there are changes of stats would be to balance the balance with those pokemon that they put in the game.

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Our approach in the past has been to update everything where possible (exists in gen 5), including stats and move/ability mechanics/availability. This is why you're able to obtain a Flygon with Dragon Dance, a Pelipper with Drizzle (which lasts 5 turns instead of infinite), and a Raichu with base 110 speed. We've excluded cases that would cause balancing issues with the game however, usually preemptively before they could cause problems. For example;

  • Knock Off has not been buffed due to its power/utility with what is available within a generation 5 environment. There aren't any mega stones etc to balance it out.
  • Outrage has been kept at its generation 3 base power as it was concluded that it would likely lead to the bans of several dragons from OU at base 120.
  • Dugtrio's base attack remains at 80. Arena Trap makes the increase to 100 excessive. This one was implemented for a while, but at a time when Dugtrio was already uber.
  • Draco Meteor was removed from Hydreigon's learnset to keep it acceptable in OU. Technically implemented on launch, but not available to players as the tutor was non-functional.

There may be a few more than the ones listed above, but those are the major ones I can recall. We will most likely take the same approach with generation 8's changes, implementing everything we can with our gen 5 base unless something new will have a negative impact on the game.

Edited by Rache

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On 9/22/2019 at 3:50 PM, Rache said:

Our approach in the past has been to update everything where possible (exists in gen 5), including stats and move/ability mechanics/availability. This is why you're able to obtain a Flygon with Dragon Dance, a Pelipper with Drizzle (which lasts 5 turns instead of infinite), and a Raichu with base 110 speed. We've excluded cases that would cause balancing issues with the game however, usually preemptively before they could cause problems. For example;

  • Knock Off has not been buffed due to its power/utility with what is available within a generation 5 environment. There aren't any mega stones etc to balance it out.
  • Outrage has been kept at its generation 3 base power as it was concluded that it would likely lead to the bans of several dragons from OU at base 120.
  • Dugtrio's base attack remains at 80. Arena Trap makes the increase to 100 excessive. This one was implemented for a while, but at a time when Dugtrio was already uber.
  • Draco Meteor was removed from Hydreigon's learnset to keep it acceptable in OU. Technically implemented on launch, but not available to players as the tutor was non-functional.

There may be a few more than the ones listed above, but those are the major ones I can recall. We will most likely take the same approach with generation 8's changes, implementing everything we can with our gen 5 base unless something new will have a negative impact on the game.

Though it doesn't make sense that not only is there not an Ubers format in, say, matchmaking, but also since MMO is trying not to even touch it with a 30 ft pole. That can be taken as an issue.

Trying to segregate Ubers from the game is very bad game design, as they're just as prominent and important of a part of the game as any other pokemon.

Edited by BoltBlades12

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19 hours ago, BoltBlades12 said:

Though it doesn't make sense that not only is there not an Ubers format in, say, matchmaking, but also since MMO is trying not to even touch it with a 30 ft pole. That can be taken as an issue.

Trying to segregate Ubers from the game is very bad game design, as they're just as prominent and important of a part of the game as any other pokemon.

Another tier would split up the player base even more, and why not avoid it if possible?

But you must be talking about Legs, otherwise you wouldn't make sense. The quoted adjustments would only upgrade a very small amount of Pokes to Ubers, and a tier with 5 pokes doesn't make much sense.

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24 minutes ago, Caliginosus said:

Another tier would split up the player base even more, and why not avoid it if possible?

But you must be talking about Legs, otherwise you wouldn't make sense. The quoted adjustments would only upgrade a very small amount of Pokes to Ubers, and a tier with 5 pokes doesn't make much sense.

The player base is already as split as it is. Not just with pvp, but with the economy in general. All the nerfs and "balances" have resulted in shifts in the player base. Adding Ubers to the PvP fray wouldn't negatively affect the community. Because I can guarantee you that I'm not the only one that wants Ubers in MMO

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13 hours ago, BoltBlades12 said:

Adding Ubers to the PvP fray wouldn't negatively affect the community. Because I can guarantee you that I'm not the only one that wants Ubers in MMO

How many times do you need to be told by various people including the staff and the tier council that this won't happen? I don't get it.

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Only saw 3 new things so far, but didn't bother much with the game anyway.

Scrafty Close Combat and Gyarados with Power Whip. But the big one is Rapid Spin with 50 BP and a guaranteed +1 Speed.

Those all seem like great additions at first glance, especially Rapid Spin would enable some cool things I guess.

 

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On 11/27/2019 at 5:56 AM, Caliginosus said:

Only saw 3 new things so far, but didn't bother much with the game anyway.

Scrafty Close Combat and Gyarados with Power Whip. But the big one is Rapid Spin with 50 BP and a guaranteed +1 Speed.

Those all seem like great additions at first glance, especially Rapid Spin would enable some cool things I guess.

 

They aren’t going to add those.

They like to keep the PvP predictable

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18 hours ago, BoltBlades12 said:

They aren’t going to add those.

They like to keep the PvP predictable

Why do I still not see BoltBlades in the ranked ladder, when anyone with a blindfold can easily get into it with a nice win rate? Or even get past round 2 in any tournament. Soooo predictable, yet you're so bad that even in this scenario you still struggle to get anywhere.

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1 hour ago, razimove said:

Why do I still not see BoltBlades in the ranked ladder, when anyone with a blindfold can easily get into it with a nice win rate? Or even get past round 2 in any tournament. Soooo predictable, yet you're so bad that even in this scenario you still struggle to get anywhere.

Because unlike you and a lot of people on this game, I actually have a life so I can’t go all the way to #1 within a day.

Also since I’m usually busy when the ranked matches start.

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20 hours ago, BoltBlades12 said:

They aren’t going to add those.

They like to keep the PvP predictable

You actually really believe they decide against something like that to keep things more predictable? I don't even understand how you can make such a connection.

Seems more like you found something that remotely relates to your witch hunt, another place for a negative comment.

 

And do you actually believe adding Ubers would magically change the complexety and predictabilty of the game?

 

17 minutes ago, BoltBlades12 said:

Because unlike you and a lot of people on this game, I actually have a life so I can’t go all the way to #1 within a day.

Also since I’m usually busy when the ranked matches start.

So you don't have much time for competitive pvp (which is available at all sorts of times) but deem yourself qualified to call pvp bland over and over again? You believe the reason you are not winning tournaments is only because you don't attend them?

And all of those idiots struggling to compete among each other  are just not as clever as you who has it all figured out? Dude.

 

 

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1 hour ago, BoltBlades12 said:

Because unlike you and a lot of people on this game, I actually have a life so I can’t go all the way to #1 within a day.

Also since I’m usually busy when the ranked matches start.

lmfao is you life crying about updates 24/7? It seems to be that way, maybe if you invested 5 seconds into pvp you'd learn a thing or two.

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Is PokeMMO going to implement the dynamic speed changes mid turn from Gen 8? For those unfamiliar with Gen 8, this is the first generation where the attacking order isn't determined pre-turn but rather checks the attacking order mid-turn (after every switch or Pokemon attack). I completely understand if PokeMMO decides not to touch this mechanic but I just wanted to know what are the plans.

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The plans(changes) haven't been discussed yet so no clue tbh, we are holding up on going over things until after the holidays and the people that would be a part of that discussion are a bit less busy.  You are free to leave your thoughts here though if you wish to contribute to it.

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On 12/15/2019 at 10:13 AM, OrangeManiac said:

Is PokeMMO going to implement the dynamic speed changes mid turn from Gen 8? For those unfamiliar with Gen 8, this is the first generation where the attacking order isn't determined pre-turn but rather checks the attacking order mid-turn (after every switch or Pokemon attack). I completely understand if PokeMMO decides not to touch this mechanic but I just wanted to know what are the plans.

Haven't heard of that change before, thanks for sharing. Can't think of any cases were it could affect turn order in PokeMMO singles, are there any (Except things we don't have, like megas that change speed at the beginning of the turn)?

I guess this would have quiet the impact on dubs.

 

On 12/20/2019 at 12:07 PM, LifeStyleNORE said:

Please don't buff Rapid Spin.

Why though? Do you feel it puts too many effects into one skill that's already viable?

Just by looking at the spinners we have available it sounds cool but not busted to me. But can't say much about OU, how strong it would really be on Starmie, Excadrill or Tenta.

Edited by Caliginosus

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36 minutes ago, Caliginosus said:

I guess this would have quiet the impact on dubs.

Yeah, well Doubles is what I'm concerned about. It doesn't affect singles at all.

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1 hour ago, Caliginosus said:

Haven't heard of that change before, thanks for sharing. Can't think of any cases were it could affect turn order in PokeMMO singles, are there any (Except things we don't have, like megas that change speed at the beginning of the turn)?

I guess this would have quiet the impact on dubs.

 

Why though? Do you feel it puts too many effects into one skill that's already viable?

Just by looking at the spinners we have available it sounds cool but not busted to me. But can't say much about OU, how strong it would really be on Starmie, Excadrill or Tenta.

Probably concerned about gyro ball

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36 minutes ago, Caliginosus said:

Why though? Do you feel it puts too many effects into one skill that's already viable?

Just by looking at the spinners we have available it sounds cool but not busted to me. But can't say much about OU, how strong it would really be on Starmie, Excadrill or Tenta.

Off the top of my head, this buff can make Excadrill busted, especially when it eventually gets access to Mold Breaker. Forretress pretty much can no longer run Gyro Ball alongside Spin, which is a move it usually enjoys having. In lower tiers Armaldo and Hitmonchan could become slighty annoying. Just not a fan about the +1 speed in general, Spin is already good without that effect and now this could likely force people to run ghosts more often.

 

Adding Nasty Plot on Gengar/Hydreigon would also be ridiculous...

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2 hours ago, Munya said:

Probably concerned about gyro ball

Ah right. Wasn't sure how it works right now, good to know!

 

2 hours ago, LifeStyleNORE said:

Off the top of my head, this buff can make Excadrill busted, especially when it eventually gets access to Mold Breaker. Forretress pretty much can no longer run Gyro Ball alongside Spin, which is a move it usually enjoys having. In lower tiers Armaldo and Hitmonchan could become slighty annoying. Just not a fan about the +1 speed in general, Spin is already good without that effect and now this could likely force people to run ghosts more often.

 

Adding Nasty Plot on Gengar/Hydreigon would also be ridiculous...

I thought if Armaldo and Hitmomchan would get "too" strong from it, they would just raise a tier.

But your other points all make sense, thanks.

 

 

 

I dislike all the new Intimidate blocks. I like seeing stuff like Inner Focus being buffed, but not in such a way. But I didn't really check which mons this would actually affect.

And Nasty Plot Hydreigon and Gengar? Definitely not interested.

 

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5 hours ago, Caliginosus said:

I dislike all the new Intimidate blocks. I like seeing stuff like Inner Focus being buffed, but not in such a way. But I didn't really check which mons this would actually affect.

In OU, Lucario, Mamoswine and Dragonite would block it.

In UU Crobat

In NU Miltank and Kangaskhan

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