BoltBlades12 Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 True to the title, Outrage needs to be buffed back up to 120. It has around the same base power as Dragon Claw. And the difference is that Dragon Claw doesn't lock you in for 2-3 turns and confuse you afterwards. So there's no reason to run Outrage over Dragon Claw. Bubaili 1 Link to comment
suigin Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 11 minutes ago, BoltBlades12 said: So there's no reason to run Outrage over Dragon Claw. Don't do it then. Due to balance reasons we're keeping Outrage at 90 BP, specially with Garchomp on the horizon. Link to comment
BoltBlades12 Posted September 16, 2019 Author Share Posted September 16, 2019 1 minute ago, suigin said: Don't do it then. Due to balance reasons we're keeping Outrage at 90 BP, specially with Garchomp on the horizon. 80 BP with Dragon Claw and 90 BP Outrage isn't at all a significant difference. Especially since something like Ferrothorn or Metagross can eat both of them up. With the former able to set up Leech Seed while you're locked into outrage. Link to comment
suigin Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 5 minutes ago, BoltBlades12 said: 80 BP with Dragon Claw and 90 BP Outrage isn't at all a significant difference. Especially since something like Ferrothorn or Metagross can eat both of them up. With the former able to set up Leech Seed while you're locked into outrage. Then use Dragon Claw since Outrage's drawbacks don't justify its benefits. Link to comment
BoltBlades12 Posted September 16, 2019 Author Share Posted September 16, 2019 1 minute ago, suigin said: Then use Dragon Claw since Outrage's drawbacks don't justify its benefits. I did the calculations for such, and even Garchomp with it's current Outrage can do nothing against Ferrothorn or Metagross. Former can again set up Leech Seed while Gar is locked into OR, and the later can just one shot Gar with Ice Punch. Example: (Outrage as it currently is, 90 BP) 252+ Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 64-76 (21.2 - 25.2%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO 252+ Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 24 Def Ferrothorn: 63-74 (17.8 - 21%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery (Outrage with 120 BP(as it should be)) 252+ Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 86-102 (28.5 - 33.8%) -- 0.5% chance to 3HKO 252+ Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 24 Def Ferrothorn: 84-99 (23.8 - 28.1%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery Link to comment
suigin Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 10 minutes ago, BoltBlades12 said: I did the calculations for such, and even Garchomp with it's current Outrage can do nothing against Ferrothorn or Metagross. Former can again set up Leech Seed while Gar is locked into OR, and the later can just one shot Gar with Ice Punch. Example: (Outrage as it currently is, 90 BP) 252+ Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 64-76 (21.2 - 25.2%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO 252+ Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 24 Def Ferrothorn: 63-74 (17.8 - 21%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery (Outrage with 120 BP(as it should be)) 252+ Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 86-102 (28.5 - 33.8%) -- 0.5% chance to 3HKO 252+ Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 24 Def Ferrothorn: 84-99 (23.8 - 28.1%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery We know, it's like that due to balance reasons. Link to comment
BoltBlades12 Posted September 16, 2019 Author Share Posted September 16, 2019 31 minutes ago, suigin said: We know, it's like that due to balance reasons. Balance reasons. Give me some good examples. Because so far, looking at the current meta, they aren’t really good ones. Link to comment
suigin Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 41 minutes ago, BoltBlades12 said: Balance reasons. Give me some good examples. Because so far, looking at the current meta, they aren’t really good ones. The incoming Garchomp, Salamence, Dragonite Link to comment
BoltBlades12 Posted September 16, 2019 Author Share Posted September 16, 2019 (edited) 25 minutes ago, suigin said: The incoming Garchomp, Salamence, Dragonite None of them can even dent mons like Metagross and Ferrothorn, even at 120 base power. And OR locks them in, so MG and FT can set up leech seed and agility respectively. And again, Outrage is only 10 BP above Dragon Claw, which isn't that significant of a difference. Especially considering that DC doesn't lock you in or confuse you after 2-3 turns. Edited September 16, 2019 by BoltBlades12 Link to comment
suigin Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, BoltBlades12 said: None of them can even dent mons like Metagross and Ferrothorn, even at 120 base power. And OR locks them in, so MG and FT can set up leech seed and agility respectively. So every team should now run these two mons or Skarmory? What does 120 BP Outrage bring to the table? Why should it be buffed? How would it benefit the meta? Can you elaborate on why this change should happen? Link to comment
BoltBlades12 Posted September 16, 2019 Author Share Posted September 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, suigin said: So every team should now run these two mons or Skarmory? What does 120 BP Outrage bring to the table? Why should it be buffed? How would it benefit the meta? Can you elaborate on why this change should happen? Would give Outrage the much needed spotlight. And it's not just those 3 that survive both base power versions of Outrage, anything that can resist Dragon or has physical bulk(like Milotic) can easily survive an Outrage and either use the other turns that it's locked into OR to either set up or just one shot with an Ice Beam or something. And again, 90 BP Outrage isn't that major of a difference compared to the 80 BP Dragon Claw. Link to comment
suigin Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 1 minute ago, BoltBlades12 said: Would give Outrage the much needed spotlight. Why does it need the spotlight again? Quote anything that can resist Dragon or has physical bulk(like Milotic) can easily survive an Outrage and either use the other turns that it's locked into OR to either set up or just one shot with an Ice Beam or something. I'll shower this part with calcs later to disprove it since I don't really have much time to do right now, but first I wanna know why Outrage needs the spotlight though. Link to comment
BoltBlades12 Posted September 16, 2019 Author Share Posted September 16, 2019 30 minutes ago, suigin said: Why does it need the spotlight again? I'll shower this part with calcs later to disprove it since I don't really have much time to do right now, but first I wanna know why Outrage needs the spotlight though. Due to the nerf, it, again, has been more overshadowed by D-Claw, to where the latter is competitively the better option in every way Link to comment
Tyrone Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 Just now, BoltBlades12 said: Due to the nerf, it, again, has been more overshadowed by D-Claw, to where the latter is competitively the better option in every way This is not an argument. "Surf has been overshadowed by Scald, do you want to buff Surf as well then?" As an example to make you realize the flaw in your logic. Why should Outrage become better than Dragon claw? What benefits does this bring to the game? The Dragons don't need a stronger STAB move. Dragonite, Salamence, Haxorus and Flygon are doing perfectly fine in their respective tiers. As Suigin pointed out, Garchomp is being released soon(tm). Even without 120 BP Outrage, we're not convinced it won't be overpowered in OU. Bestfriends 1 Link to comment
suigin Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, BoltBlades12 said: Due to the nerf, it, again, has been more overshadowed by D-Claw, to where the latter is competitively the better option in every way Alright due to this logic the tier council has decided that Water Pulse will now have 200 BP as it never had much spotlight at all. See you in the Fields of Justice, Summoner. Luke 1 Link to comment
gbwead Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, BoltBlades12 said: Due to the nerf, it, again, has been more overshadowed by D-Claw, to where the latter is competitively the better option in every way Outrage has always been at 90 base power in MMO. It was never at 120 base power, so there is no precedent here to say "again". Why is it a problem that Outrage is overshadowed by D-Claw? Tackle is overshadowed by Return, that's not a big deal. Outrage not being at 120 base power could be considered at best a missed opportunity to improve the metagame, but I think it's safe to say that 120 bp Outrage would be overpowered. There is a reason why fairy type was added in gen 6; Dragon types were way too strong prior to gen 6, so it's important to keep in mind that we need to be very careful in MMO when our dragons get buffed in any way. RysPicz 1 Link to comment
kiwi Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 seems the op never played vanilla bw where you click outrage and you kill something, you know that outrage is not the only move thet learn right? imagine that your steel died and a scarf chomp or +1 dnite spams outrage to win. thats not funny Luke, DoubleJ, suigin and 5 others 7 1 Link to comment
razimove Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 1 hour ago, suigin said: Alright due to this logic the tier council has decided that Water Pulse will now have 200 BP as it never had much spotlight at all. See you in the Fields of Justice, Summoner. good monologue with your Alt, you're really into this Suigin woah xD 1 hour ago, gbwead said: Outrage has always been at 90 base power in MMO. It was never at 120 base power, so there is no precedent here to say "again". Why is it a problem that Outrage is overshadowed by D-Claw? Tackle is overshadowed by Return, that's not a big deal. Outrage not being at 120 base power could be considered at best a missed opportunity to improve the metagame, but I think it's safe to say that 120 bp Outrage would be overpowered. There is a reason why fairy type was added in gen 6; Dragon types were way too strong prior to gen 6, so it's important to keep in mind that we need to be very careful in MMO when our dragons get buffed in any way. I really like this approach to the subject. Would be col however if we could get PBE open to test 120 BP outrage, as many want it, while other many dont. RysPicz and gbwead 2 Link to comment
Mike Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 Outrage will remain at 90 Base Power for the foreseeable future. This is due to balancing reasons as mentioned above. Outrage is a very epic and balanced move in generation 5 that totally did not get spammed by every dragon to ever exist with little to no draw back whatsoever. Especially with the unavailability of certain Legendaries such as Heatran and Jirachi this doesn't help in our case. We will announce if Outrage ever gets changed to 120 Power on the forums. I'll be closing this now. Bestfriends, drdray and RysPicz 2 1 Link to comment
Recommended Posts