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Charly

The Current Economy

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Hello everyone, I write this post as a measure of complaint and / or suggestion due to the current economy, the situation currently in the game is critical.
Currently for the average player, (from 2 to 4h per day) it is desperate to see the current prices in channel trade and gtl, but above all the new methods 
of farming, which among which are scarce, do not yield, due to multiple nerfs in these.
In my particular case, I have a job, I can not spend all day with farm, islands and gymnasiums, since they have been brutally nerfed, the
 issue is serious, because what I call the most from the game are competitive pokemons, but Due to the low farm profit rate, it costs a lot of farm, preventing you from creating new 
equipment for yourself.
It would be good for the staff (especially GM as GS as well as always being nice to the community, but they can't do it themselves), read it seriously to the post, and not as
 one more, that they answer personally, and that changes are applied as close as possible.

 

In the end, thanks for your time to everyone who has read it and to the day-to-day users, leave your opinion, please, we are a community.
PD:we are already in 2019 to 4 years that hoen was implemented ... it would not be time to ... END THE FRONT BATTLE ? xD
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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What specifically are your issues and why are they issues? Your post does not really go into any detail about this.

 

Why are players desperate to see current prices in trade chat and GTL and what about them?

 

As it sits your post makes no sense and no changes can be discussed without constructive feedback about specific aspects of the economy.

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1 hour ago, XelaKebert said:

¿Cuáles son específicamente sus problemas y por qué son problemas? Tu publicación realmente no entra en detalles sobre esto.

 

¿Por qué los jugadores están desesperados por ver los precios actuales en el chat comercial y GTL y qué hay de ellos?

 

Tal como está, su publicación no tiene sentido y no se pueden discutir cambios sin comentarios constructivos sobre aspectos específicos de la economía.

My problem, like many others, is that the economy is currently stagnant. The publication does not go into details because it is
understood the current situation of the game, farm to die.
PD: With regard to being desperate for the prices of global GT and chat, you are wrong, I may have expressed myself wrong, I was referring
 to the fact that as the economic situation is bad, there are fewer sales, so prices begin to inflate little by little, or there
 are too many less sales than before, but of course, it is mainly for people who do not spend real money in the game, with RP 
there would be no problems, the problem is that it is a game No PayToWin theoretically, but every day they strive to do so, PayToWin
PPD: In summary, the limit of money that one can get through the game itself (whether gyms or islands, among other npc, as well 
as with the items) has been exaggeratedly limited. In doing so, the happy player must spend hours and hours trying to farm, which is wrong, since 
the strong point of the game should be the competitive one, not FARM.
Thanks for the reply, sorry for the syntax errors.
 
 
 
 pp

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Are we talking lower prices or lower values here? Lower prices&values i mean sure why not

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6 minutes ago, DeadGorilla said:

can we back up to the part where he thinks anyone playing this game is happy

yeah true im fairly upset i cant afford a new toaster to play better games... oh well im stuck here till a miracle comes along

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1 hour ago, Charly said:
My problem, like many others, is that the economy is currently stagnant. The publication does not go into details because it is
understood the current situation of the game, farm to die.
PD: With regard to being desperate for the prices of global GT and chat, you are wrong, I may have expressed myself wrong, I was referring
 to the fact that as the economic situation is bad, there are fewer sales, so prices begin to inflate little by little, or there
 are too many less sales than before, but of course, it is mainly for people who do not spend real money in the game, with RP 
there would be no problems, the problem is that it is a game No PayToWin theoretically, but every day they strive to do so, PayToWin
PPD: In summary, the limit of money that one can get through the game itself (whether gyms or islands, among other npc, as well 
as with the items) has been exaggeratedly limited. In doing so, the happy player must spend hours and hours trying to farm, which is wrong, since 
the strong point of the game should be the competitive one, not FARM.
Thanks for the reply, sorry for the syntax errors.

Hi there. 

 

Would you be so kind as to provide examples of the aforementioned issues in your native language alongside an english translation? Maybe you could voice your point better this way.

 

Hola.

 

Serías tan amable de proveer ejemplos de los problemas que has mencionado en tu idioma natal junto a una traducción al ingles? Quizá puedes explicar mejor tu punto de esa manera.

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11 hours ago, Charly said:

since the strong point of the game should be the competitive one, not FARM.

Why should it be like that ? Cause it's been all about the farm here since time immemorial. Even to make comps, you gotta farm, and most players in the game are not even interested in competitive gameplay anyway. China which makes the biggest playerbase is all about farming and shinys, with only a few interested in competitive battles. Even taking non CN players into consideration, competitive aspect of the game always made up for a comparatively very small community. There's always showdown, etc if you want a pure competitive action and no farm.

 

Also, money influx reduction has the raised value of pokeyen. Everything is cheaper now in accordance with the shortage of cash, so not a whole lot of difference is actually made.

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17 hours ago, XelaKebert said:

What specifically are your issues and why are they issues? Your post does not really go into any detail about this.

 

Why are players desperate to see current prices in trade chat and GTL and what about them?

 

As it sits your post makes no sense and no changes can be discussed without constructive feedback about specific aspects of the economy.

14 hours ago, SecretDjinn said:

Hi there. 

 

Would you be so kind as to provide examples of the aforementioned issues in your native language alongside an english translation? Maybe you could voice your point better this way.

 

Hola.

 

Serías tan amable de proveer ejemplos de los problemas que has mencionado en tu idioma natal junto a una traducción al ingles? Quizá puedes explicar mejor tu punto de esa manera.

Well, I think I understand what he means, and what happens. He's definitely referring to deflation in prices. You can observe that by just looking at how cheap are some breeders, there are now a lot of them under 4k, when 7-8k has been the minimum for most egg groups in the last few years. Also, today you can easily buy natured 5x31 comps for 700-800k, something that would be unbelievable 2 or 3 years ago. Deflation is also affecting item prices, just to bring some examples, Metal Coat (usually around 11k and now about 5k), everstones (20-25k some years ago, 7k now) or Leppa berry (1.2/1.3k before compared to 0.8 now?).

 

To this deflation, we have to add some of the recent nerfs, some of them too abrupt in my opinion:

  •  Destroying Amulet Coin essence, therefore reducing the profit of gym runs
  • The brutal nerf to Pickup farming in some the best places (just try and pickup some Leftovers in Berry Forest nowadays if you don't know what I am talking about -it's not by coincidence that Leftovers is one of the few items that have gone up in price-)

The nerfs are adding to the deflation in GTL prices, creating a bad scenario: they are turning farming money into an even more tedious task. Some of you would say: "you get less money in gym or island runs, and less items while Pickup farming, but things are also cheaper". Well, some of them are, but most key items or NPC charges, like power braces, poké balls and GTL listing fees are as expensive as ever. So breeders and items are as hard to get as always, but the profit you get from selling is less than before, therefore turning farming more tedious.

 

I think we are in the back side of a cycle that started when Unova released. At that time, a lot of new players (we tend to blame the Chinese, but not only them) swarmed the market with a lot of fresh money, either obtained by grinding the story or gyms, or buying RP. That created an active economy that brought a false sensations of high purchasing power, because, as we know, price of PokéBalls, power braces and other NPC prices stayed the same. There was inflation but players had money to buy everything they wanted.

 

Now we are in the opposite position, all the casual players that came when Unova released are now gone; new players adding money to the economy via Story Mode are reduced in number (by a lot), RP buying has plummeted (yeah, I don't have real data, but we all know donations have gone down by now), and we suddenly have this flat economy that makes farming incredibly tedious.

 

I don't know what fails, that belongs to devs to think of. It's probably the lack of active players. But it is true that in late 2016-early 2017, some months before Unova released, we had a stagnant economy as we have now, but prices were way higher (I remember selling EV reducing berries at 2k each back then, who would dare today?). So, things that were being done well at that time, are not being done well nowadays.

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52 minutes ago, Rittz said:

we had a stagnant economy as we have now, but prices were way higher (I remember selling EV reducing berries at 2k each back then, who would dare today?). So, things that were being done well at that time, are not being done well nowadays.

Do you really believe this? Because I don't.

 

Here's an example, the item Choice Scarf. Back then they were like 220-250k. Now they're around 180k. Back then I was able to get 225k an hour farming gym runs and trainers.

So, in one hour I was able to afford a Choice Scarf back in the day. Today I'm making 180k an hour without an amulet coin. Is it lower? Yeah it is. But did I spend more time trying to get enough money to get a Choice Scarf compared to last year? No.

 

In fact you get more money now because of the amulet coin buff.

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I before teselia did 800K a day doing only Gyms and islands because they could be done 2 times a day and now I just get to 200K for day. if there is a difference that only a blind man does not see. and at that time there were only the Hoenn Gyms, So just doing the Gyms of one region earned twice as much as doing all the regions today. They still don’t like it?, late clarification, with only once doing Gyms once a day and only those of Hoenn who were the existing ones gave you 400K.

Edited by Loco

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2 hours ago, Rittz said:

Well, I think I understand what he means, and what happens. He's definitely referring to deflation in prices. You can observe that by just looking at how cheap are some breeders, there are now a lot of them under 4k, when 7-8k has been the minimum for most egg groups in the last few years. Also, today you can easily buy natured 5x31 comps for 700-800k, something that would be unbelievable 2 or 3 years ago. Deflation is also affecting item prices, just to bring some examples, Metal Coat (usually around 11k and now about 5k), everstones (20-25k some years ago, 7k now) or Leppa berry (1.2/1.3k before compared to 0.8 now?).

Some factors needing considered here are, availability of specific resources vs demand for said resources. With respect to items like Metal Coat, Everstones, and Leppa Berries. Those are pretty heavily farmed and some player chuck several stacks onto the GTL with little concern for actual demand. What you are seeing with respect to those items isn't deflation but rather inflation. The terms don't mean what you think they mean. Inflation doesn't mean a rise in price or value as it would sound, but rather a devaluation of a specific resource/currency. Deflation is where the value of a specific resource/currency rises. So when looking at exchange rates from say, Yen to Leppa Berries you see inflation on the part of the Leppa Berries and deflation on the part of Yen. The yen, being more valuable, is now able to purchase more and go further with respect to Leppa Berries.

 

3 hours ago, Rittz said:

To this deflation, we have to add some of the recent nerfs, some of them too abrupt in my opinion:

  •  Destroying Amulet Coin essence, therefore reducing the profit of gym runs
  • The brutal nerf to Pickup farming in some the best places (just try and pickup some Leftovers in Berry Forest nowadays if you don't know what I am talking about -it's not by coincidence that Leftovers is one of the few items that have gone up in price-)

I'd have to look more into the availability of those items on the GTL to see if there is an overabundance, if there is, those items have inflated with respect to Yen.

 

3 hours ago, Rittz said:

I think we are in the back side of a cycle that started when Unova released. At that time, a lot of new players (we tend to blame the Chinese, but not only them) swarmed the market with a lot of fresh money, either obtained by grinding the story or gyms, or buying RP. That created an active economy that brought a false sensations of high purchasing power, because, as we know, price of PokéBalls, power braces and other NPC prices stayed the same. There was inflation but players had money to buy everything they wanted.

Inflation and deflation run in cycles. There will always be periods in which one item will gain value (deflate) vs another. A false sense of high purchasing power is where the issue started and that is why you are seeing items dropping in value (inflating). Players who farmed those items, with little knowledge or the market, thought they could make a quick buck by dumping them onto the GTL when the market was already oversaturated with them. These will eventually stabilize as the supply dwindles compared to demand. There isn't much you can do about this tbh and the only way the devs could fix it would be to yeet a bunch of those items into the void, not ideal because this is something that could resolve in due time. We can only speculate currently what effect Sinnoh will have on the economy with respect to these items in general. I could see these items gaining higher demand once more farming area is available, but that's a best guess forecast. Without any graphical data showing recent trends I can't really say much more.

 

3 hours ago, Rittz said:

Now we are in the opposite position, all the casual players that came when Unova released are now gone; new players adding money to the economy via Story Mode are reduced in number (by a lot), RP buying has plummeted (yeah, I don't have real data, but we all know donations have gone down by now), and we suddenly have this flat economy that makes farming incredibly tedious.

 

I don't know what fails, that belongs to devs to think of. It's probably the lack of active players. But it is true that in late 2016-early 2017, some months before Unova released, we had a stagnant economy as we have now, but prices were way higher (I remember selling EV reducing berries at 2k each back then, who would dare today?). So, things that were being done well at that time, are not being done well nowadays.

The first paragraph is where you are seeing Yen deflating. It is gaining value because the amount being added over time seems to be slowing, although we can't say for certain as we don't have access to that data. The best I can offer is to keep a sharp eye on things and brace for the release of Sinnoh. A bit after that we'll be able to start seeing the effect of Sinnoh being released on the economy as a whole.

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13 minutes ago, BoltBlades12 said:

as i suspected. the economy has been broken beyond repair.

This is wildly inaccurate. All economies go through phases of inflation and deflation. What we are seeing on a general sense is an increase in the value of Yen (deflation) relative to the value of commodities in game. Pokeyen is going farther now because it is being seen as more valuable. Factors that you /should/ be looking at are how long the higher priced commodities stay on the GTL, which they tend to stay around longer. Players aren't willing to pay 1,300 yen for a single Leppa Berry anymore because the supply is still larger, as a result prices have begun to trend downward with Leppa Berries losing ~30%-35% value relative to the value of Yen. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, nor is it a sign that the economy is broken. Commodities in game are only worth what others are willing to pay for them, so if no one is willing to pay 1,300 Yen per Leppa Berry, then Leppa Berries are no longer worth 1,300 yen. In a broad sense what is happening is that Yen is being seen as harder to obtain and as such is gaining more value relative to items that can be farmed with relative ease.

Edited by XelaKebert

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I just wanna talk about farming. It was fun to look for mushrooms , heart scales, shards and everstones at past in your free time. Cuz ez money while u listening music... But smh , those held items not many as before.

Numels and whismurs were holding berry on them . Now you must catch at least 50 of them to see a single berry.

 

#NerfsOP

 
 
 
 
2
Spoiler


Also i dislike the nerf on critic and confuse. Competitive is fun if there is more luck... Now people talking about nerfing flinch? sure sure. 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Rittz said:

Well, some of them are, but most key items or NPC charges, like power braces, poké balls and GTL listing fees are as expensive as ever. So breeders and items are as hard to get as always, but the profit you get from selling is less than before, therefore turning farming more tedious.

I completely agree to that. Braces... I am only using pokeballs now ~ 

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23 minutes ago, FinnTheMember said:

 

Spoiler
 
 
 
 
2
  Reveal hidden contents

 

Also i dislike the nerf on critic and confuse. Competitive is fun if there is more luck... Now people talking about nerfing flinch? sure sure. 

 

 

lol this is the worst take in the history of pokemmo forums

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Just now, FinnTheMember said:

Oh an historian \o/

the "H" in history is not silent!!! Ok you've topped your last bad take

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Just now, Gunthug said:

the "H" in history is not silent!!! Ok you've topped your last bad take

Dude, this is english. Even the the people who speaks this incomplete language not sure how to write it and host competitions for it. *sigh*

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I think it would be very interesting to have a well updated price index for NPC vendor items that matches with changes made to the yen production ratio.

 

The thing with GTL items is that they constantly regulate themselves due to supply and demand; the amount of time you had to take to grind for an Everstone before the patch to buy one on the GTL is near the same after the patch. We are even seeing some certain vanities either calm down with their inflation, or even just drop in price.

 

I think what can be a frustrating thing for players is if their yen production ratio was dropped by 20%, but all of the NPC vendor store items stayed the same price. 

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1 hour ago, XelaKebert said:

This is wildly inaccurate. All economies go through phases of inflation and deflation. What we are seeing on a general sense is an increase in the value of Yen (deflation) relative to the value of commodities in game. Pokeyen is going farther now because it is being seen as more valuable. Factors that you /should/ be looking at are how long the higher priced commodities stay on the GTL, which they tend to stay around longer. Players aren't willing to pay 1,300 yen for a single Leppa Berry anymore because the supply is still larger, as a result prices have begun to trend downward with Leppa Berries losing ~30%-35% value relative to the value of Yen. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, nor is it a sign that the economy is broken. Commodities in game are only worth what others are willing to pay for them, so if no one is willing to pay 1,300 Yen per Leppa Berry, then Leppa Berries are no longer worth 1,300 yen. In a broad sense what is happening is that Yen is being seen as harder to obtain and as such is gaining more value relative to items that can be farmed with relative ease.

Ever since this update, everything has significantly lost value.

Such as Leftovers due to making Berry Forest Snorlax lvl 30, and thus unable to repel trick. And I’ve paid attention to the Leftovers price on GTL. They haven’t increased like you said they would. They got lower and less entries at that.

But the #1 loss of value was the Lucky Egg. It used to be priced at 1-2mill an egg. Now that they are consumable, the whole market has gone awry as people see their lucky eggs that they worked so hard to get are worth next to nothing compared to how they used to.

 

Without going much into the subject to prevent completely derailing the subject. At the current rate, a certain “power creep”(hint, hint) or nerf/making Gym/E4 rematches easier wouldn’t affect the economy at all. Since odds are, in the future, Gym/E4 rewards will get nerfed anyways.

Even if it does, everyone would get over it in a month, like you and the other mods are saying people will after this update.

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On 9/5/2019 at 3:32 PM, BoltBlades12 said:

Ever since this update, everything has significantly lost value.

Then you don't understand what is really happening, but I will explain further in a bit.

 

On 9/5/2019 at 3:32 PM, BoltBlades12 said:

Such as Leftovers due to making Berry Forest Snorlax lvl 30, and thus unable to repel trick. And I’ve paid attention to the Leftovers price on GTL. They haven’t increased like you said they would. They got lower and less entries at that.

I don't recall ever saying this, you may want to check who said it.

 

On 9/5/2019 at 3:32 PM, BoltBlades12 said:

But the #1 loss of value was the Lucky Egg. It used to be priced at 1-2mill an egg. Now that they are consumable, the whole market has gone awry as people see their lucky eggs that they worked so hard to get are worth next to nothing compared to how they used to.

Of course they were going to lose value. They've been losing value since like 2013. Lucky Eggs used to be like 24 million back in 2013, but they were always bound to lose value. Even if they weren't consumable, they were bound to lose value as more entered the market. Simple supply and demand comes into play here. Most players didn't need more than a couple Lucky Eggs back in the day aside from using them for equity in trades for other highly desired commodities, like shinies. You can't live in the past on this. It's like looking a golden egg and wishing you had a regular egg.

 

On 9/5/2019 at 3:32 PM, BoltBlades12 said:

Without going much into the subject to prevent completely derailing the subject. At the current rate, a certain “power creep”(hint, hint) or nerf/making Gym/E4 rematches easier wouldn’t affect the economy at all. Since odds are, in the future, Gym/E4 rewards will get nerfed anyways.

Seriously dude, perish that thought, it's not going to happen at all. At least, not in the manner you want. You don't need to inject this argument at every chance you get.

 

On 9/5/2019 at 3:32 PM, BoltBlades12 said:

Even if it does, everyone would get over it in a month, like you and the other mods are saying people will after this update.

Alright, so now I'm going to tell you what is really going on here. The market is adjusting to the recent changes. This happens in the real world stock market after new tariffs, laws, etc are introduced. As it sits right now, the market is hot for someone wanting to stock up on the cheap. Two terms that come to mind are Bull Market and Bear Market.

 

In the real world, a Bull Market is a period of sustained growth and return yields from investments and a Bear Market is a condition in which stocks and securities lose 20% or more value over a period of time. Now we can't fully use the definitions for PokeMMO because we don't have all of the variables needed, but we can use the principles to explain what is happening.

 

As it sits, commodities like Leppa Berries are facing a Bear Market for sellers. They are losing resale value relative to this time last month. This is very likely due to an oversupply of them on the market. This is typically why commodities in MMOs lose value quickly. Someone with little understanding of the economy in game farms up several stacks of an item and dumps them all into the market at the same price rather than adjusting as they add more to the market. Players may pay for those short terms, but the ones that sell the fastest undercut the higher priced listings.

 

On the flip side, anyone who needs/wants the commodities that are losing value are facing a Bull Market. They can get more for their dollar. As they stock up and pull listings off the market the prices will, in theory, turn in an upward direction.

 

The one thing to note, commodities in an MMO shouldn't have the same levels of fluctuations as real world commodities. They should, overall, trend neutral. If they are losing value very quickly or sitting on a downward trend something else is wrong.

 

All in all, this update is only a couple months old. Markets don't normalize that quickly in any economy. Adverse conditions have ripple effects that last for several months or even years after they have disappeared.

Edited by XelaKebert

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