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[LC Discussion] Diglett - Test Ban


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Just to make this decision even more difficult, here are some interesting facts:

  • Misdreavus went below the 60% usage mark last month for the first time since February 2019, but overall Misdreavus rose in usage during the test ban.
  • Mienfoo had its highest peak (74%) in usage ever recorded two months ago, but overall Mienfoo fell in usage during the test ban.
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On 9/3/2019 at 5:34 PM, gbwead said:

Several things could be done:

  • Accept that LC is inherently unhealthy and can’t really be fixed
  • Ban Misdreavus
  • Ban Mienfoo
  • Ban Clamperl or Deep Sea Tooth
  • Ban a combination of Misdreavus and/or Mienfoo and/or Clamperl.

 i was wondering if it also has been considered to bring back murkrow? Perhaps people would use less misdreavus and mienfoo when there is a good pokemon to counter them... Also it has access to sucker punch to attack ss clamperl. By adding a murkrow, people might be less likely to use misdreavus and mienfoo because of murkrow's strenghts and you don't want a lot of pokemon being weak to 1 pokemon.

 

The other question then will be if murkrow won't be used too much. As it was apparently fine to use test-ban for diglett, we could try a test-unban for murkrow to see if this is the case. As what i believe: i think stealth rock will limit the use of murkrow.

Edited by athelstan
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Hello, 
I've just heard about the return of diglett in LC. I don't think it's a good thing fir the tier and i'm against this decision. 
Here are several reasons from my point of view : 
- It is unhealthy for the tier as he is the perfect support to set up clamperl or any shell smash users as they are more difficult to set up at the moment. 
- It counters all the answers of shell smash users. 
- A lot of mon are not viable anymore - poison types, electric types, fire types. So no more grimer, tentacool, chinchou unless scarf, ekans, larvesta, ponyta, abra,  magnemite etc. The tier will be smaller and everyone will play the same teams. 
- It will cause the hyper dominance again of mienfoo cause no sticky hold pokemon can be played. So misdreavus will be played a lot more than now cause it will be the only answer or either calmperl and mienfoo/timbur. 

It's just my opinion : we need to ban again Diglett where we should have keep it. 

Edited by Stelian
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Again, after 2 tours, diglett is monopolizing the tier. 
- With clamperl or any shell smash user, it's too easy to set up and it will be the first one to set up who wins. 
- The threat to be trapped every time when you see mienfoo (u-turn) as you can't put your check as it is mostly killed by diglett. 
- Diglett is faster than anything so it can revenge kill without taking damages, not the case of trapinch. 
Ban this thing again holy shit
 

Edited by Stelian
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On 12/8/2019 at 3:17 PM, Stelian said:

Again, after 2 tours, diglett is monopolizing the tier. 
- With clamperl or any shell smash user, it's too easy to set up and it will be the first one to set up who wins. 
- The threat to be trapped every time when you see mienfoo (u-turn) as you can't put your check as it is mostly killed by diglett. 
- Diglett is faster than anything so it can revenge kill without taking damages, not the case of trapinch. 
Ban this thing again holy shit
 

yeah but have you considered the incredibly strong counter-ban argument that I'll repost below?

 

On 11/30/2019 at 2:02 PM, Munya said:

I'm leaning towards unbanning diglett

 

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17 hours ago, Gunthug said:

yeah but have you considered the incredibly strong counter-ban argument that I'll repost below?

 

 

The majority of the TC was either split or against keeping it banned, and I didn't see enough of a difference in usage to warrant keeping it banned given the situation. That was not meant as an argument, more of an invitation for somebody to make an argument to change the minds of those voting on it.

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9 minutes ago, Munya said:

The majority of the TC was either split or against keeping it banned, and I didn't see enough of a difference in usage to warrant keeping it banned given the situation. That was not meant as an argument, more of an invitation for somebody to make an argument to change the minds of those voting on it.

The majority of the tier council don't play the game or even lc. They use the smogon basis to tell us what to play but there are a lot of differences there. Arena trap diglett is so strong for the reasons i've mentionned before. It kills the tier, it's not even funny as you have to play some poke and you can't use others, no originality anymore. I ask to the tier council a new vote. 

Edited by Stelian
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1 hour ago, Munya said:

The majority of the TC was either split or against keeping it banned, and I didn't see enough of a difference in usage to warrant keeping it banned given the situation. That was not meant as an argument, more of an invitation for somebody to make an argument to change the minds of those voting on it.

I think this post right here would have been a much more adequate way of expressing, well, exactly what you said in this post. None of that was implied by your previous post

Edited by Gunthug
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4 minutes ago, Munya said:

the thread is for discussion and people aren't discussing, if "we are going to unban this" isn't clear enough to convince us to do otherwise, i don't know what is.

I exposed all the point to ban diglett. I'm still waiting for a TC to answer me to start a discussion. 

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In sum: 
- Mienfoo being the most used mon spamming u-turn makes diglett able to trap and effectively kill most of the stuff that can switch on mienfoo. This only makes mienfoo even more threatening than already is, and also helps its usage being too high, which is something we don´t want. (Or we shouldn´t want)
- Diglett is legit the faster nonscarf pokemon to roam in LC, apart from elekid, which has to contantly 50/50 gamble against diglett. This speed allows it to outspeed and delete a lot of stuff that are slower than it (Which, as I said before, consists in pretty much everything).

- Diglett´s trapping potential removes any sort of freedom the opponent would otherwise possess once diglett is on the field.

- To top it off, diglett not only traps, not only outspeeds the vast majority of the tier, but also offers memento as a wincon. This, coupled with the fact clamperl ohkoes the whole tier after set up, and the fact diglett also gets rid of clamperl´s best counter in the form of tentacool makes most LC games a marathon towards: Who can memento, and set up clamperl first"

 

TLDR; ban it. Thanks for reading it all, and thanks for those who will ignore this.

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