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  1. spared is subbing in @Parke for schuchty. @CristiDOX
  2. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-944329835
  3. I'll start by saying you're using the definition of check that you grabbed from smogon in a very rigid way. Yes, if these offensive pokemon are chipped enough they cease to be a check to mamoswine. But, something like slowbro and bronzong are not a check either according to your reasoning. In the absolute worst case scenario every hazard is up and slowbro has been chipped to a low percent, so mamoswine kills it. In fact slowbro checks pretty much nothing, because any pokemon faster can kill it in the worst case scenario. You see how silly this is? So, yes, yanmega is a check to mamoswine as long as hazards stay off, but I'll admit it is beyond unreliable to use as a mamoswine check, you got me there man. My point was that there are many pokemon that live an ice shard and kill it back. In respeonse to this I'm sure the "get ouright killed" part was an exaggeration, but very few pokemon actually get ohkod by ice shard. Because under the scenario I presented, aqua jet is likely killing mamo. How exactly are you getting an EQ off.... Because, as I demonstrated fake out into double edge has a good chance to kill mamo, assuming jolly life orb kanga. Let me redo the calc, since the level 100 calcs could confuse some people. I thought the difference was minimal enough to get the point across anyway, my bad. 252 Atk Life Orb Kangaskhan Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mamoswine: 43-52 (23.2 - 28.1%) -- 84.9% chance to 4HKO 252 Atk Life Orb Kangaskhan Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mamoswine: 130-153 (70.2 - 82.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO As you can see, mid rolls of both fake out and double edge will kill mamo. i forgot to mention low kick, but whatever same point. So, again, how exactly are you getting that eq off? lol.. Like I said in my previous post, any pokemon base 80 and below will need to be scarf in order to check mamo. UHHHH ok. Yes indeed this is obvious. Then why are you saying things like this: When I said that concludes why i think mamo isn't overpowered, I was summarizing the entire post. I can see how that formatting could be misunderstood, my bad. What I said about OU and NU was a rebuttal to what you said here: People playing more offensively in those other tiers indicate it's a problem with the tier and not the player base. Oh, I guess you agree with me now. It seems you did the same thing LOL Hmmm, how exactly does the OU meta from 2014 or 2015 relate to I haven't seen anything disproving that these things do indeed check mamo. If you think not then why exactly? Yes, indeed. We play a game where one player must outplay the other. How about playing offensively and maintaining momentum so that you give mamoswine a minimal amount of room to work. Novel idea, I know. Hey, thanks. Just when I thought this was turning into a shitfest. Oh....
  4. Well, you've proven yourself wrong here. You can now see why I thought you didn't understand what a check was. Here are some calcs of pokemon that, with a free switch in, check mamoswine. (The 80 base speed pokemon and below require a scarf, obviously) I've only included pokemon that kill mamo from full or after rocks. When we take into consideration pokemon that can check mamo after chipping, there are many more. I've also only included pokemon in the uu tier. When we look beyond into NU, there are many more viable checks to mamoswine availabe. I know a lot of these are unorthodox, but I am demonstrating the ability for the metagame to adapt to something more offensive. Yes, there are a ton. Yes, you must keep most of these pokemon healthy in order to keep mamoswine in check. This is how pokemon is played, you have to manage your resources correctly in order to not get swept. With so many checks, it also is very possible to have several checks in a team. I don't think this is unhealthy for the metagame. Well, no, it's not irrelevant. Mamoswine has to use ice shard to hit these pokemon and like I just addressed, keeping certain pokemon healthy to deal with mamo throughout the match is crucial in playing against it. I have demonstrated that there are many options to kill mamoswine, so mamo is not going to be centralizing in that way. Yes, there are few defensive options to handle mamo, but a wallbreaker to the overpowered walls in uu is necessary. Things like forre, gligar, mandi, dusclops, snorlax, and now p2, were able to wall a huge portion of the tier. I'd like to look at a couple of defensive options for mamo that i think you overlooked. (still, there aren't many). Shelmet and misdreavus, I know, aren't very viable, but I thought I'd include them anyways lol. This is very incorrect. We've seen a shift into more offensive play in both OU and NU, where wallbreakers are much more abundant. Bulkier teams still exist, but it's a huge difference from what we're seeing in UU. No it's not the fault of the people that choose to use bulky teams, it's the fault of the metagame that punishes more offensive play. That pretty much concludes why I think mamoswine is not overpowered and is necessary in UU. Since you couldn't help yourself but to make this discussion into some kind of personal beef, like the drama queen you are, I guess I should respond to this. No, I don't have any official wins, but I have many non-automated unofficial wins and have been a horse in several TT wins. This on top of the respect of peers that I consider much better than you. I find it funny that you would mention a win over me (in a tier I very much dislike and don't play), after your embarrassing losses this season. I've clearly been much more successful this season.
  5. You dont know what a check is, it has a ton of checks. It needs to be dealt with offensively, which there are plenty of options considering how slow it is. Before there was an extreme lack of wallbreakers in the tier and it was dominated by bulky teams. I believe it's healthy for the tier to introduce some new wallbreakers. A lot of people would disagree, in fact many people were calling it the worst tier for how slow it was.
  6. This logic has always irked me. If you don’t test the stronger versions of moves or certain abilities or w/e, then you won’t know if they’re broken or not. The way you guys have done this is completely backwards.
  7. It seems to me that pz is manageable on the defensive side. Some of this gets dicey when you factor in hazards and tri attack hax, but it is manageable. But, here is the real point I was trying to make: All of this priority can be used to check pz, on top of many faster pokemon and scarfers. Of which, both dugtrio and krookodile have the ability to trap it. The point I'm trying to make is that there seems to be a heavy bias in the tier discussions about how a pokemon can be checked defensively. PZ is frail and not THAT fast that it will dominate the tier. People can adjust offensively, as they have in ou. I feel this isn't a good argument to dismiss the weaknesses of a frail pokemon. For one, screens require some turns of setup and thus gives the opportunity for positioning or somehow dealing with the screens. Also, we shouldn't be calling pz broken for a niche strategy that it could theoretically be broken in, instead of evaluating pz on it's own merits.
  8. Just let these free, everybody complains uu is the worst tier. Games take forever wall meta blah balh, well this is why bc you ban any offensive threats. At least test mamo and pz, they are both slow/frail enough to be easily checked.
  9. me vs makx after these other battles
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