pachima

its time for the houndour shenanigans. Now for real I dont play LC so I cant argue. But after eviolite, it seems a nice tier.

Could easily create a system where a cooldown starts and the loser can´t challenge anymore within that cooldown. If the cooldown is large enough and the reward not that large, exchanging wins would not be worth the time.

Very well, time for a little slight more serious input into conkeldurr Why? Because 1- I believe banning it is not necessary, and 2- Because if you ban it, I am not in the mood to go back in time to gen3 and watch 300+ turns with chansey/blissey dominating the tier with 120 and 140% usage respectively. Counters: As someone claimed in the past, We are in a tier that we can´t bring ourselves to think instinctively for counters because there might be none. (It seems this argument here is used randomly for some reason but whatever). Either way, there are still some counters for conkeldurr. Cofagrigus is probably the best one unless your conkeldurr has 12 moves, 3 natures, and 2 items, one of which is iron ball for fling. The set that seems most threatening so far seems guts flame orb for obvious reasons. Life orb sheer force is great too but fails on that drain punch damage. Either way, conk needs a switch in in order to get the burn boost immediately for the next round. On that switch in, there will be damage involved (Yes, yes I know there might not be, you are the prediction master bla bla bla bla) But realistically, you should assume that. Then there is some risk indeed, but depending what is conkeldurr coming on, you can scout some of its moves (There is also protect that chansey/blissey can use to stack a little more that flame orb damage). Eventually, a conk that gets hazards, slight switch-in damage and flame orb damage is almost forced to predict well its next move, otherwise conkeldurr takes the risk of regaining no life and barely hurting the enemy. (Conk can´t regain health without drain punch anyway, so a good player (Yes, we are assuming both players are equal-skilled, which apprently is not true cuz conk predicts well every single turn) can force conk to drain punch eventually. But well, I admit, counters are little before you know the set, and few after you know. Checks: Shut up Pachima (This will be quoted, or not because I now typed this). Conk has no counters, its busted, period. Very well, I assume there are few checks to conkeldurr right? Let´s see: Gengar (Substitute + psychic, or to a lower extent, sludge bomb can check and rack flame orb damage before it kills it - Gengar isnt likely to come in a 100% health conk anyway. Starmie - Offensive starmie checks conk easily, and can even switch in on some predicted moves. Dragonite - the rain abuser dragonite can check Conk as well, and since rain is so prominent nowadays, rain abuser dragonite is a force to be reckoned with. Skarmory - Skarmory is half a counter actually that can force conk out even after switching in, but I will consider it just a check nevertheless. (Brave-bird variants ofc) Kingdra - Actually, I have used bold kingdra, and that thing can counter conkeldurr. A Bulky modest kingdra can´t counter, but can check it pretty easily (Yes, it suffers high damage, but then you get to spam crits all day that are not easily stopped except by twin-cancer sisters) Peliper - Offensive hurricane just shreds Conk. A more defensive one can also counterish non-tpunch sets, but a check nevertheless. Salamence - Just needs some slight prior damage and it then can check with draco meteor. (Also has intimidate) Metagross- Bold metagross counters Conk. I have used it countless times and it works. It gets wore down after a while, but whatever. Also stops scizors and whatever so its not specific to conk. Most metas still are able to check conk with either psychic or zen headbutt. (B-but my conkeldurr has 252 hp-atk-def and has bulk up all the time without losing coverage, so meta can´t check- Good for you) Togekiss - Air slash, period. Gliscor - Offensive Gliscor can acrobactics, period too. Darmanitan - Unless conk is bulked up (Which doesnt seem to be the problem here) - Darmanitan can ohko with life orb/banded flare blitz. Reuniclus - Also half a counter to all non-facade sets. Checks easily though (Even though psychic spam is not a good thing in this OU) Chandelure - Overheat can ohko conk. Can also counter most versions, and can also scout some moves. You need more: Slowbro, jellicent, cofagrigus, all can counter Conk - Jelli is the shakiest of them all, but whatever. Also they are all UU. There are more in NU, but those are irrelevant to discuss. Also, just for fun. People claim conk is busted, broken, broken, op, and also even busted. Then I go see usage stats and find out Blissey is 2nd most used and ferro is 4th most used in this OU tier. Have fun!

Just since the last time with venomoth that I claimed to be broken months before you actually discussed it. Hype!!!

So good to be right once again.

What I can see is that people here have 6 moveslots conkeldurr, are so pro that they predict well everysingle turn. Conkeldurr also comes safely against everything and switchs in without taking damage. There are no ghosts to stop drain punch heal and therefore to make conk able to return safely in the future. Sorry guys, if I am not that pro.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. hydreigon can´t beat chansey. Oh my god. Fucking lmao. Im dying. Ok, if you all think hydreigon cant beat chansey, then Im afraid you are right, hydra is bad. EDIT: Sry but this was about the most funny thing I have read in here after murcielago.

If conk is busted, I have no damn idea what the fuck Hydreigon is.

This is not true at all. If conk switches, lets say, into a seismic toss chansey, get rocked on switch and get burned after that turn, (Let´s even not say there is sand on field) would you really use thunderpunch on this chansey instead of regaining back that health that you can´t regain otherwise? But no, let´s even say you are able to fire off that predicted thunderpunch ( Don´t get me started on facade, its even worse). Now what? Tenta comes, takes thunderpunch, almost dies, but Conk finishes his turn with like 40% health. Then, either tenta forces conk out and grabs its chance to spam some hazards, or try to scald something, or conk has to sac another dose of its hp to mach punch. After burn, rocks, 2x rocky helmet damages, even if Conk predicts thunderpunch well, it leaves the battlefield with a broken ankle and a blind eye(aka red red hp). (Therefore, tenta kinda did its job). On the other hand, if tenta switches on drain punch, then conk can say good bye and releases himself from the trainer that used it. And btw, sometimes conk has to switch in on something way less soft than seismic toss chansey. It´s not a surefire counter, ofc not. But it pretty much removes away what, imo, makes conk so strong in this meta, which is that heal it can pull off as it spam hard damage.

These facade, bulk up, drain punch, mach punch, thunder punch, ice punch conkeldurrs surely look troublesome. On another note, rocky helmet tentacruel ruins conk´s longevity after they switch on a predicted drain punch. Coverage issues means conk can´t hit either gliscor, salamence, gyarados at the same time as well as Volcarona and starmie. If one slaps flame body (EDIT: flame orb lol) on conk, chances are its hp is always not full, so stuff like gengar, chandelure, peliper, bla bla bla can check it quite easily. They dont fear mach punch too. Out of OU, swalot also full counters standard conkeldurr (Unless earthquake, which would limit even more its coverage). Same for Wynaut. All this without mentioning Reuniclus. So, Conk surely is a threatening mon but I fail to see where it is uber offensive. EDIT: forgot togekiss too. Can check conk pretty easily unless you for some dumb reason let it set up like Hell.

I think we should get a non-shiny existence thread. This stuff is rarer than shinies these days.

Sure thing. Thought this was the place hehe.

Magic guard is currently preventing the user from getting poisoned after switching on toxic spikes

Ftfy. Btw, I think its time to add darmanitan. Sheer force puts it to sky high offense levels. Speed is kinda a letdown tho. Either way, I believe Darmanitan is worth an A- (B+ at worse)

Y u do this? Now I ain´t eating pancakes anymore. jk @Zymogen

Idk, just saying what other people said.

This is what I said 7 days ago, but bisharp and typhlo much worse.

is you back?

Wdym? Obvsly they have 2. One jolly and one ada.

ign: pachima Team: LYLE Experience: Last 4 PSL Motivation: Always enjoyed the Managing part of PSL. Also, to those who know me more closely (in-game) I am more of a strategist rather than a duelist, which suits this perfectly. Also, I have plenty of comps to lend if anyone needs, and I have a solid grasp throughout all tiers (Dubs is not a tier yet) Fluff: If I can make offensive shuckle work, I can lead a team to the V!

This is redundant

I feel you are implying shiny rate is not fair. @RysPicz This guy needs a lesson.

Competitive guide you say. Where is my hustle togekiss set?

If only people started using defensive rapidashes instead of pleb leads, this wouldn´t be an issue.

Its fair tho