pachima
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Posts posted by pachima
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5 hours ago, HumongousNoodle said:
Empoleon, now that it has roost.
Assault Vest helps too.
252 SpA Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 100 HP / 156 SpD Assault Vest Mienshao: 87-103 (56.8 - 67.3%)
252 SpA Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 224 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Metagross: 39-47 (21.3 - 25.6%)
The issue with Draco Meteor Hydreigon is how its bulk allows it to trade damage against most of the stuff, at the same time as it prevents the enemy from switching comfortably. If you slap a Choice Specs in those calcs you'll realize Assault Vest doesn't really matter.
Offense doesn't switch on it. Balance doesn't really switch on it, or needs dedicated answers. Even stall needs to gamble with whatever move Hydreigon clicks. Bulky Offense just dies because they don't have the speed or the bulk to handle it.
Things become much much worse when you can't even know what set Hydreigon is using beforehand, and thus you have to potentially lose something just to scout it.
By removing Draco Meteor, most sets lose their main power, thus it can be handled much easier.
Simple.
- PoseidonWrath and DoubleJ
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First. That's not how it works.
I asked you what stops Shaymin in UU from being overcentralizing. If you, or the TC, are ready to move it down, you should be able to answer that. Since you haven't, the argument was given.
But I'll bite it.
How many offensive Pokemon switch reliably on Shaymin?
Answer: 0
How many offensive Pokemon reliably revenge kill Shaymin?
Answer: 2 (Durant and Sigilyph) (And Offensive Crobat, since its gradually rising). Also durant isn't that reliable, since it can lose against both scarf and bold versions.Let's bear in mind Porygon-Z was banned despite having lots of revenge killers, and although shaymin doesn't hit as hard against stall, it completely renders more offensive builds useless.
Having a dedicated wall for it in offensive teams doesn't work either because Shaymin is able to handle every single wall in the tier individually besides Mandibuzz, which is quite bad nowadays, and just got nerfed. You are forced to have multiple switches to this thing, which invalidates virtually every offensive team and basically forces everyone to either play Balance or stall or something in between.Is this enough of an argument?
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First of all, using usage for a Pokemon that can only obtained once, imediately after it was available, is kek. (But whatever. Not here to discuss the system)
Second, did you even bother to read what I said? If you did, why are you disregarding the argument given? If you didn't, why respond at all?
Do I need to quote my own post to highlight the key words for you to understand where to look at?
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7 hours ago, Munya said:
Thoughts on Shaymin? Would it be alright in UU if it comes to that?
Sure. Once you explain to me what deals with it without overcentralizing the tier with the same Crobat-Bronzong-Rotom cores.
Unless, of course, you want a tier where you instantly lose if you don't bring them all.
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1 hour ago, JDteufel said:
Rate?
Azumarill @ Leftovers -> Sitrus Berry
Ability: Huge Power
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Spe -> You might want to outspeed Mantine
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Aqua Jet
- Double Edge -> Return (After Belly drum you won't need any extra power, and the recoil is bad)
- Belly Drum
- SuperpowerDruddigon @ Assault Vest
Ability: Rough Skin
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 236 HP / 252 Atk / 20 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch
- Sucker PunchSteelix @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature -> If you are using minimum speed for Gyro ball, you might prefer Relaxed nature
IVs: 0 SpA / 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Earthquake
- Roar
- Stealth RockMantine @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD -> You might want to replace some SpDef into Def, since Mantine already comfortably tanks most special moves even without full investment
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Scald
- Toxic
- RoostSceptile @ Life Orb
Ability: Overgrow
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Flamethrower -> I assume you meant Hidden Power Fire
- Giga Drain
- Dragon PulseEelektross @ Choice Specs -> Life Orb/Expert Belt/Wise Glasses/Whatever (The beauty of Eelektross is that it has amazing coverage, thus it doesn't want to be locked in a single move. Get a boosting item, but allow it to freely switch moves)
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 132 HP / 252 SpA / 124 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Giga Drain
- Thunderbolt
- Volt SwitchThe changes I would do for individual sets are in Bold. As a team, you might have a few issues against Scarf Blaziken, which would be another reason to get more defense investment on Mantine, and fight spam in general. Beware of Vaniluxe as well. Maybe replace Druddigon for another bulky offensive Pokemon that better handles these issues.
This is not the place to discuss builds, however, so it would be better to go to the appropriate thread. -
I agree these changes won't matter much when it comes to regen, and that it actually buffs the ability, as if it wasn't already a problem.
If I am not mistaken, gen9 regen was nerfed to 25% heal instead of 33%. That could be nice, especially since it is pretty much a given we are getting other regens eventually.
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Funny. MMO balancing has always buffed a more defensive playstyle to the point MMO meta is by far the stalliest of most gen5 metas out there.
Funnier. Most were so hyped to see stall further buffed with hazards slapped on most walls, because apparently MMO isn't stally enough for those people.
But God forbid them to actually balance the game and for the first time in ages giving a buff to offense, when compared to official counterparts.
Besides, some people completely forget the fact Pokemon is a game and are willing to spend 1 hour of their life per match, mindlessly clicking recovery buttons, just because they are either unable to think, or simply refuse to. This, while not being necessarily a bad thing, is not fun, and happens WAY too often, the the point most tournaments are dragged to hell because of a few matches that delay the whole thing. Most people don't have 5-6 hours to invest straight in each tournament, and honestly, neither should anyone. Again, I am not saying it shouldn't happen at all. Just that it happens way too often.
Does this completely kill defensive styles? I don't know. I can't know, and neither can anyone. We have never tested similar changes, and any comparison between this and other metagames outside this game are irrelevant. And while it may indeed unbalance this game and turn into an issue, it's a risk at least I would be willing to take. If it works, we may be able to turn tournament into a much more enjoyable experience. If it doesn't, then they'll find a way to mitigate it somehow if deemed necessary.
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1- Hippowdon, a defensive Pokemon, is being justified because it allows other Pokemon coming in
2- Hippowdon, again a defensive Pokemon, is being compared to goddamn Ambipom
On the other hand, Salamence was considered to be a Crobat replacement, so...
XD
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I don't see it being a big problem in NU.
On closer inspection, there are many Rock/Steel types in the tier that can irritate him and make its life a living hell. It will irritate some offensive teams a bit, but nothing unheatable. -
IGN: Deffonotpachima
Time Zone: BST
Discord: Pachi#3152
Preferred Tiers: All
Fluff: Didn't want to participate, but this is a really good host.
- RysPicz, Thenavarro, pablobacas and 19 others
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I am not derailing anything. Pokemon isn't linear. You don't discuss Serperior by itself. I brought Garchomp and Rotom because that's what centralizes the tier and restricts building the the extent of not having slots for new threats (Like Serperior).
What will you do once the next threat is implemented? You discuss it again, and so on and so on, or you discuss the actual real problem to avoid dragging the whole thing up?
There is no meta where a 50% usage Pokemon is fine. And there is no discussion where ignoring half the teams used for the sake of arguing Serperior is any legit.
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That moment when someone actually posts interesting stuff about this meta and everyone else tries to mock at them for absolutely no reason other than showing they don't understand the meta lmao.
Darken is fundamentally correct. We are beyond the point where we can get a truly balanced meta. We are beyond the point where we have all the tools to deal with a few problematic threats.
Garchomp has almost 50% usage in a meta where it is undisrupted. We lack the speed and the power to actually pressure it offensively. (Can't wait for all Weavile argments. A pokemon that would be otherwise not even OU)
Rotom-Wash has literally nothing in the tier (Besides Serperior, which people want banned), that punishes defog. That shouldn't happen at all. Shifting momentum offensively against defog users is one of the best ways Offense/Balance can get theirselves advantage. You simply cannot do that against Rotom-Wash. No matter what you send against it, Rotom can find itself able to regain momentum back with a slow Volt switch after defogging or a status move.
I lied. There is one pokemon: Hydreigon. (Which is nerfed either way)
We don't have Latios/Latias/Kyurem, the first two would pressure both Garchomp and Rotom-Wash offensively, and the latter would pressure Rotom-wash.
We don't have Celebi/Zapdos that would be able to withstand their momentum defensively.
We don't have Water absorb Seismitoad as a much better Gastrodon to actually punish Rotom and/or be able to set hazards on it.
Is serperior a problem in the tier? Yes, it is. But before jumping out on conclusions, why don't we try to actually understand where this problem comes from? Is it from itself? Or is it from the meta being so terribly centralized around already problematic things that are left unchecked that we have no space to handle something else? In other words, is it THE problem, or is it an extension of the real problem?
Does this mean Serperior should not be banned? No. It means other stuff needs to be discussed first. Otherwise, banning Serperior would be similar as trying to retrieve water from a sinking ship back to the ocean with a tea spoon, instead of fixing the cause of the problem.
- Shadow and buddyhoodie
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8 hours ago, KaynineXL said:
While I do believe Serperior is incredibly difficult to deal with in the current OU metagame, I'd find it a real shame if it was nerfed enough to remove it from OU simply for the fact it's very refreshing to see a Pokemon actually able to not only come in on Rotom W, but also punish it.
Personally, I think if removing Glare was a possibility that would be adequate.
While seeing what Serperior can do in play, it's hard to believe it's only a 95 base power Pokemon which means without it's gargantuan 130 BP STAB Leaf Storm coupled with it's ability to go +2 with contrary, it doesn't actually do a great deal to a large quantity of offensive threats in OU which have priority or are faster with scarf.
The issue is, paralysis is the bane to all naturally fast/scarf Pokemon.
you mean 75.
Yeah, serp does nothing at +0. It cant even sweep offensive teams at +2. It needs a minimum of +4in order to run through teams.
Unfortunately, grass spam is so free in OU 😞
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I like how people casually throw Heatran, when its much more broken than whatever we have.
But hey, we got dugtrio!
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TLDR; Ban serperior until even more broken stuff come, ignoring the fact the argument pretty much folds to itself while also ignoring the fact MMO will be forced to change their mentality when it comes to offensive bans with HA/legendaries, no matter what they want or they think they want.
Otherwise, please stop suggesting legendaries because there is no way we can have half of them if apparently serperior is too strong.
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Actually, my bad on a small subject. It is probably also worth noting Taunt leftovers Serperior can, in fact, beat Chansey. I'll give you that one. Just forgot about it cause I didn't see it mentioned.
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1 hour ago, gbwead said:
Every single part of this sentence is untrue.
No, its not. And I suggest you to learn how your metronome actually works and to understand how far from the accurate calcs Smogon's calcs with this item are.
Unless the item is not working as intended, Chansey stops Any non leech Serperior.
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5 minutes ago, AwaXGoku said:
idk what you mean by that, but 55,77% winrate is high.
Its high, but nothting critical
5 minutes ago, AwaXGoku said:i will make it simple :
Weezing can lose to Serperior without RNG even more if you play a bold weezing (most commun weezing in the game)
Golbat can lose to serperior if rocks are one the field and para proc 1 timeThis is misleading. Weezing can lose to Serperior the same way some Pokemon can lose to a random freeze. You need at least 3 para procs in a row to beat weezing, which let me tell you, its much less probable than a random freeze. The same goes for golbat, although golbat is slightly more vulnerable to it.
5 minutes ago, AwaXGoku said:i dont get it ? i never speak about serperior without boost , my main point was about his ability in addition to his movepool and speed that make it unhealthy in the meta.
Grass is one of the worse types offensively. If your team can't pressure grass moves to the point of you never speaking of Serperior without boosts, its maybe time to reconsider the entire team.
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2 hours ago, AwaXGoku said:
What i wanted to point is that actually Serperior has no real counter and the few check we can use are not really usefull and/or too much based on rng.First you cannot post such broad terms and hope they stick. Please explain which mons can counter/check Serperior and how those rely on RNG.
Second, we have a few stuff that reliably counter most Serperior sets, fearing only the Paralyze (But let's real, we cannot focus on Glare alone): Clefable - Weezing. Chansey also comfortably tanks most sets, only fearing the subLeech set that isn't too common right now.
2 hours ago, AwaXGoku said:
Serperior is also one of the fastest mon in the tier so it makes it difficult to revenge kill it without a scarf user that can OHKO it (or you might get para lol) or Weavile.
He also has a nice bulk so it make it even more ennoying to deal with it.Fair enough.
2 hours ago, AwaXGoku said:
The last thing is that he has 6% usage but 20+% in tournament which is more relevent than the classic usage since he just recently added and cost a lot to breed for new player/poor player.This doesn't tell much. 20+% usage in tours is nothing extraordinary and doesn't warrant any decision based on it.
2 hours ago, AwaXGoku said:
In conclusion ,my opinion is that Serperior isnt healthy for the actual OU metagame and should be banned/ban contrary until we have acces to more HA pokemon that can deal with it.How did you reach this conclusion?
Its also worth noting Serperior has virtually no offensive pressure before setting up the the point where Super effective hits stil are unable to beat what they are supposed to hit (Not even a x4 HP fire ohko uninvested Scizor, for instance), which also means it is possible to pressure it offensively before it has the boosts.
All in all Serperior is definitely a controversial Pokemon and may be problematic but I fail to deem it so based on what you just said.
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On 7/26/2022 at 11:55 PM, Imperial said:
Cursed body
- People typically spam substitute on Gengar in the hope of activating the ability against certain Pokemon
- If a Pokemon is choice scarfed/banded they are locked in one move - once the ability activates after they attack, they are forced to switch out and lose momentum when they at least have a chance to stay in and attack for another turn if cursed body didn't activate
Arena Trap
Basically acts as a revenge killer - for example pretend Infernape manages to successfully kill one of the opposing mons, they can then send out Dugtrio to 1KO it with Earthquake (and no I won't be like Caioxlive and use the Mach Punch scenario)
Shadow Tag
You didn't ask this but I'll include it - although they nerfed it to 3 turns, Wobbuffet can also pretty much be a viable revenge killer. For example depending on the opposing mon they can just use Counter/Mirror Coat to KO or use Encore to gather momentum by gaining a free switch into a potential threat
I just saw this now, but cursed body doesn't proc if the user is behind a substitute.
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I swear this community cant have good things. They must be so used to literal garbage that they criticize any attempt at creating an actual organized, polished and better version of what we already had.
So, for the love of God, let the man work. He has been doing an enormous piece of effort towards what seems to be a really well crafted season. Of course every change of this magnitude comes with unpolished, unoptimized, and maybe some unwanted features or decisions (Not for everyone at least). However, watch this event as a whole, instead of nitpicking every small detail that has no reason to since there is still plenty of time before this actually begin.
For the first time in a World Cup, this season looks good. Don't ruin it for others or for yourselves because of your unbreakable inertia of changes.
March 2023 Movement Discussion
in Competition Archive
Posted
nice. Any sort of offense just died in UU.
Going back to 60% stall teams in high tournaments.
Fun.