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pachima

Tier Council
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  1. First of all thank you for hosting this marvellous event.

     

    ign: pachima
    title: Icy Valley

    Spoiler

    Darumaka’s droppings are hot, so people used to put them in their clothes to keep themselves warm - Pokédex entry

     

    The most important item when hiking is an Escape Rope, or so Pachima learnt years ago in the Pokémon School. This morning, when he received a report, which was broadcast by Jubliffe city's station, mentioning a Hiker was missing for over a day somewhere in the depths of Mt. Coronet, he instantly set his own preparations in order to save the distress call. Pachima was a rescuer.

     

    Usually rescuers have a Pokétch app that sends them a signal of all active distress calls nearby, but ever since Pachima stepped into Pokemmo the app somehow stopped working. Not even Bill, who Pachima found in his early days in a diferent region, was able to pinpoint the issue, therefore the rescuer had to learn how to fulfill his job without the app.

     

    Two hours ago he was in Valor Lakefront’s hotel and now he was at Mt.Coronet’s entrance, via Oreburgh City. From his Pokéball emerged Darumaka, his partner, who although was leveled enough to evolve chose to keep its primary form.

     

    “We need to rest up in Oreburgh City before heading to Mt.Coronet again.” Said Hiker Justin, before suddenly lowering his head in guilt. “Or so I told him, but…”

     

    He shook his head and, after a moment of reflexion, resolve filled his voice.

     

    “Please Rescuer Pachima, help him. We were in the linear patch of snow between what resembles a valley near the top of Mt.Coronet. Unfortunately we had not brought Escape Ropes and before we could proceed any further we were surrounded.”

     

    A pause followed, where the hiker clenched his fists, now staring down the ground.

     

    “Eventually we decided one of us had to ask for help. I ran as fast as I could to reach the cave, and before any Pokémon could struck me my Golem took me out using Dig.”

     

    Another break. In a second the hiker breathed heavily, and then looked Pachima apologetically in the eye.

     

    “If you wish I can escort you to the spot…”

     

    Pachima interrupted him abruptly.

     

    “Thank you,” he said, staring at the cave’s entrance, which was close enough to watch tiny Zubat wiggling around the walls. ”But I am afraid rescuers are not allowed to put any other life’s in danger. I take it you understand”.

     

    They nodded understandingly and Pachima began what would be his hardest challenge yet.

     

    Once inside he stopped to quickly assess his situation, looking all around. In his bag there was every kind of useful items, although Darumaka, who suddenly peeked into it with glitter eyes, only cared about one; Lava Cookies.

     

    “Yes, that’s yours,” said Pachima, retrieving one of those. “You might need them, that’s right!”

     

    Then he checked his Ocarinas he had received as a rank-up reward two years ago; Strength, Rock Smash, Cut, Rock Climb and Cut. The latter would probably be useless in a cave, but the other five were most likely enough to reach his destination. Meanwhile, Darumaka seemed to have no issues Rock smashing random Geodudes that would appear, angered by the sudden invasion of their territory, or Fire Punching the Zubats disturbed by its heat emanated.

     

    Next there was a lake, prompting the rescuer to call upon his Swanna, (It is probably relevant to explain Swanna is the symbol of a Rescuer for their quick access to Surf and Fly) and shortly after a bright flash the trainer traversed it on the back of the summoned Pokémon. It is also true that Pachima could have bought a Fly and Surf Ocarinas, but he always enjoyed to ride on the back of Swanna. Swanna liked it too!

     

    On the other side rugged rocks blocked the way. By blowing the Rock Climb Ocarina he was allowed to reach the higher end in no time and from there the set of stairs that then followed. Upstairs there was another floor, which was somehow colder, and Pachima retrieved a pair of Lava Cookies that the jolly Darumaka consumed in one go, performing a small but cute dance shortly after. One way was blocked by ledges that could only be jumped from the upper side and the other was blocked by a big boulder.

     

    A soothing sound reverberated through the walls, granting Pachima the ability to move the stone effortlessly and proceed, reaching then a split path. To the left there was a dead end, featuring only two Pokéball in the ground, but through the other side followed a snaky road with wooden bridges that crossed pairs of lifted rock and Pachima went that way.

     

    The next floor was small, so incredibly small that they traversed it without noticing any wild Pokémon. When he went upstairs again, he suddenly stopped, shivering in cold.

     

    “Darumaka” he said, and retrieved a set of Lava Cookies to toss them towards the Pokémon that once again jumped into a short dance. “It’s time. Do you feel comfortable with?”

     

    There was a jolly cry and after a momentaneous effort there it was, a roundy crystal like droplet that seemed to gleam brightly in red, and which the rescuer took to put inside his clothes, instantly feeling warmer and wamer.

     

    Then the path splitted into two; Ahead there was another dead end, which only allowed them to find a wild Golbat that was easily dispatched in their way back, and through the alternative followed a long road leading outside.

     

    There was snow falling softly in the now ever so white ground. Then the road divided into two again and they took the grassless one. After that a rocky wall blocked their way, prompting Pachima to blow his Rock Climb Ocarina in a softer tone so to avoid the risk of avalanches.

     

    Now there were three separated roads and, maybe for the first time, he hesitated briefly. To the right there was yet another entrance in the plain snow, and a grassy field, covered in white, seemed to exist to the left. Ahead lied a second rocky path.

     

    First he took the rocky path ahead for it was closer, only to be disappointed once he realized it was a dead end covered in glass, featuring just a random stone that had no reason to be. However, when he went back, hail suddenly stormed in fiercely, prompting Pachima to cover his eyes under a scarf and Darumaka to hide behind him.

     

    In the near horizon, now covered by the blizzard, a pair of gazing eyes glitterered and Pachima stopped, observing them as well. Two another eyes glowed from behind and, now in panic, he realized they were surrounded.

     

    A wild horde appeared!

     

    They reached closer one after the other, strengthening the hail ever so hard. Its cries roared threateningly in the air, prompting the rescuer to battle against all five Abomasnows. In no time Darumaka jumped upon the battlefield, taunting the enemies with a flashy smile and then rushed mightly against them. In his path snow melted. Before reaching the opponent the little red Pokémon held his fist back, only for a split second, and sent it at full speed afterwards against the poor iced tree that quickly fell on the ground, unmoving.

     

    However, the remaining four didn’t flee. No, instead they reacted aggressively and began charging their own moves; the first summoned a Blizzard, damaging Darumaka in the process, the second slammed its own body, crashing it painfully against Darumaka, resulting in a double edged sword that damaged both Pokémon, next followed an array of sharp-edged leaves that crossed the air with a cutting sound only to target, all at the same time, Darumaka again, and finally the fourth Abomasnow laid its own roots underground, to absorb the nutrients out of it shortly after.

     

    Darumaka is buffeted by the hail!

     

    The second turn came quickly but Darumaka had lost its speed after sustaining the damage. Nevertheless it was still the first to move, jumping high in the air to breathe heavily and then unleash it all out in an intense blast of hell-fire. The target, now slowed down for the roots restricted its movement, couldn’t avoid the fatal strike and fainted down as well.

     

    Only three remained, but after watching how powerful Darumaka was they seemed to retreat a little bit. Because of that none attempted a direct strike, instead two of them set their roots underground while the third looked falsely enraged to confuse the oponnent. Luckily it missed.

     

    Darumaka is buffeted by the hail!

     

    Now breathless Darumaka took a short period of time to regain its posture and for the third time it launched itself against the enemy. Again he held his fist back, repeating his Fire Punch.

     

    The Wild Abomasnow has fainted!

     

    The last two Abomasnows glanced each other and retreated, hiding themselves as they set their roots even deeper underground.

     

    Darumaka is buffeted by the hail!

     

    Another Flametrower and the fourth Abomasnow came down as well. The last Abomasnow, now in a desperate attempt to flee, couldn’t even move.

     

    Darumaka is buffeted by the hail!

     

    Finally Darumaka unleashed the final blow, and the last Abomasnow lost its senses.

    Then Darumaka turned to Pachima and tilted its head as if it was waiting for something. Indeed the rescuer realized what it meant

    and retrieved ten more Lava Cookies, which Darumaka swiftly devoured without even chewing. But before crossing down the rocky path again Pachima realized it was cold once more. The droplets he had in his jacket were no longer warm. Because of that he asked Darumaka to get him some more, and although this time they weren’t as easy to create as before, three shining droplets appeared in the ground, brightly hot.

     

    Then they tried the entrance on the right. Inside there was a small lake and a set of stairs craved in the rock that seemed to lead to a dead end. Pachima even looked at the water ahead of him but, once he realized Waterfall was needed, he chose to give up, hoping that he could reach the correct destination by the grassy field.

     

    Luckily there was a snaky path of white snow uncovered by grass and they took it, therefore avoiding any unnecessary encounter. Ahead was another entrance, which Pachima took without much of hesitation. Inside they realized they were in the other side of the lake with the Waterfall, and followed the only path available, through a rocky wall.

     

    One Graveler came in as soon as they stepped into the higher floor, but as slow as he was they fled pretty easily. Then appeared a Bronzong that was even slower but was instantly incinerated by scorching flames.

     

    Outside felt even colder. Now the hail in his face felt like small needles, therefore forcing Pachima to cover his head even deeper into his scarf. But then, in the horizon, there he was in the valley surrounded by two walls, the missing Hiker curled into itself, shivering in cold.

     

    Pachima ran as if his own life depended on it and crossed the small patches of grass that appeared before the stairs below. That was when, in the last patch of green grass, a huge tree came down upon them, enraged like no other.

    Hail filled the battlefield and Darumaka stepped into it, his eyes glittering with passion. Indeed that was a challenge he could not bring to refuse for there would be no better challenge than the one it was about to face.

     

    First Abomasnow leaped in, greatly surprising the rescuer and his Pokemon, blasting then away absolute-zero frost in the form of Sheer Cold. Its power seemed unrivaled for even though it missed Darumaka froze momentarily in shock. Nevertheless the fire Pokémon roared overjoyed and performed a small dance before craving a threatening graze towards the giant Abomasnow that stood ahead.

     

    In two seconds Darumaka rushed against the opponent. They knew it could not afford Flametrower for its low base special attack wouldn’t be enough to beat such powerful Abomasnow in one go, which would be dangerous considering it somehow learnt Sheer Cold. So everything was in one final punch. One last ditch. The ultimate effort! First Darumaka charged power into his fist that then started glowing in hot red, then Hustle pumped up into untamed force in a single blow.

     

    Close.

     

    Closer.

     

    Abomasnow would soon fall for its doom.

     

    Suddenly an explosion engulfed the whole area, scattering ashes all around.

     

    Darumaka’s attack missed!

     

    The fiery Pokémon froze in shock upon the sight of the gargantuan presence now behind it. It was too late to avoid the coldest of the punches but Darumaka tried to nevertheless.

     

    Pain stroke in its brain and Darumaka let out its weakened cry.

     

    Darumaka is buffeted by the hail!

     

    One final turn was upon them. Last time Abomasnow was faster so all Pachima and Darumaka could hope for was to win an eventual speedtie. Both looked at each other confidently and nodded.

     

    Now!

     

    Darumaka charged its fist once again while Abomasnow raised its monumental figure in the air in a desperate attempt to summon a Blizzard.

     

    Faster.

     

    Abomasnow raised its arms high in the sky and the ground trembled. Abomasnow dropped its arms like hammers and the wind blasted their faces. From behind, the wildest of the Blizzards had just picked up and now roared its way towards them.

     

    Darumaka used Fire Punch!

     

    For a second there was no sound. For a second the wind was no more, the ground stopped moving, the grasses ceased to stir, the hail that had already increased in intensity froze intantly in the air. Then the monstrous body fell down to the ground and a massive dump echoed around.  The wind picked up again, the grasses flowed once more and the Hail came to a halt, falling softly now.

     

    They had won!

     

    However, there was no time to waste. Pachima ran down the stairs and reached the Hiker, still quivering painfully in desperate survival. He called him but there was no answer. He shook him but there was no response.

     

    There was only one last hope. Pachima looked at Darumaka and it nodded. One final droplet was all they needed, although Darumaka was too damaged to create those.

     

    It tried.

     

    Unsuccessfully.

     

    It tried again.

     

    Unsuccessfully.

     

    Suddenly the rescuer seemed to realize something for he now searched through his bag. In two seconds the brightest of the skulls was in his hand, an Orange Flaming Skull that Pachima swiftly put on Darumaka’s head to increase its temperature. A droplet was created and the Hiker, upon its soothing presence, began to move, began to talk, and began to finally realize he was saved.

     

    Then Pachima took an Escape rope and they warped into space.

  2. Can I get community to share their inputs (respectfully) about P2? 

    I've been running ladder for the past few days, and across all tiers this Pokemon is probably the only one (Apart from Dugtrio) that may warrant a discussion.

    I don't want to elaborate much for now, but I'll just write a starting point:

    First it is a mon that is terribly hard to switch into with an offensive team thanks to its coverage options, an already solid special attack and access to download. Not only that but its gargantuan defenses allow it to pretty much switch against anything that doesn't pack a stabbed and powerful Fighting move. This by itself may not be considered banworthy but there is something I realized upon spectating plenty of late rounds tournaments in UU: A lot, and I mean a lot, of teams are actually awfully built and weak to a lot of common stuff, except P2 is there to fix all those flaws without any major drawback whatsoever and I don't believe that is a good thing. 

    In sum, P2 is way way too good not to be used in bulkier teams, and even a really viable option to serve as a pivot in more offensive ones. Is it too good for UU? I am not so sure yet, although by experience I can state it is really really a pressuring point in any battle that shouldn't be considering its absurd bulk capabilities, as well as deciding games in its own commonly once the enemy runs out of their Fighting mons (Which isn't hard to do since the tier has plenty of options of those) or if they simply do not possess them.

    Feel free to add into this.

    Spoiler

    Dugtrio should be still banned 

     

  3. Pc is to be repaired so I have restricted time discussing this thing. (Sorry discord)

    Anyway, allow me to address the super average Pokemon that singlehandedly pushed most offensive stuff in NU down while pretty much shifting the whole tier to a more defensive and stagnant one, all by itself, or most of it anyway. As a comparison note, before dugtrio dropped, NU was known as a Yolo tier, where there were so many possible threatening matchups that lead to an incredible offensive tier. Now 7 out of the 10 most common pokes are defensive, and the few offensive that survived, or can survive, are either wallbreakers (because the meta shifted defensively) or Pokemon that simply care little about the trio of terror. Note I am not saying thatpre-dugtrio NU was a good tier, cause it was not, but goes to show just how relevant and ever-present in building this Pokemon is, screaming to me, at the very least, terribly centralizing. 

    (For my beloved gbwead, Dugtrio should be problematic in every tier. But, as stated, since NU is generally much less bulky, as well as having less priority, simply makes Dugtrio slightly more problematic here than in the other tiers)

     

    Also thank you Madara for your input. Let me explain my point of view regarding it and why I believe it is not right. (No offense, I actually respect you being the only who dared to bring your opinions in the other side of the spectrum)

    4 hours ago, MadaraSixSix said:

    yo all, well before you start you have to know that I did not count argued or defend the why I am against the ban of dugtrio and arena trap, because from my point of view it's a joke to want to ban such an average pokemon....

    but I see that many of you are traumatized by the terrible dugtrio!

     

    what we can see concerning dugtrio, last month he had a 50% win rate, which is absolutely not incredible, so by this figure we can understand that the players manage to cope with it

    - Winrate is irrelevant to unhealthiness. I don't know how many times we need to bring this up. It is nothing more than a contributing factor that may or may not be decisive.

     

    at the level of the pokemon stat, it has a good speed, and the rest? nothing, it does not tank anything so it cannot come easily on the ground, for that it was played 72% of the time with a sash,

    - First you are severely undermining dugtrio's bulkiness, since for example, it is able to eat an Ice beam from nidoqueen. Second you are overmining (if thats a word) the ability to take EQs from offensive stuff. And third, u-turn, volt switch and teleport exist.

     

    he can not even ohko a drapion with his stab if he is not band, and he can not switch against drapion if he is band, and if he is sash he does not ohko not drapion, this is only an example simple..

    - Yes, a simple example in a simple game, where every Pokemon is either dead or 100% alive, and where there exists no chipping or hazards or whatever. Pokemon is simply not that game sorry.

     

    some talk about ban arena trap, but without arena trap dugtrio becoming a totally useless pokemon ban arena trap is making an average pokemon useless and unplayable...

    - wtf? how is this relevant. At all.

     

    some say olala dugtrio makes pokemon unplayable, but it's just that you played the top third, dugtrio and weak against stall too much, but is not insane against offense, because many pokemon can set this up easily vs dugtrio, even a little sell smash omastar vs dugtrio if the dugtrio is sash (72% of the time)
    if the dugtrio and cb and he just killed one of your pokemon with his stab you can set up one (mantine and charizard for example) you can also generally easily set up vs dugtrio with liligant, ferraligatueur, eelctross, samurot, bibarel and many others

    - So we should not play the top third Pokemon if we want to deal with a supposedly non-problematic Pokemon? Sounds not problematic at all. Charizard? Lilligant? Samurott? Bibarel? I guess Tyranitar in gen3 wasn't that much of an issue cause hitmontop existed in NU then. (I won't even discuss the Omastar. AT ALL! 

    Spoiler

    Unless you are using Max attack Spike Cannon Omastar to break the Sash at +2

    Spoiler

    Which still dies for Sucker Punch.

     

     

    there is also the argument dugtrio is not healthy, but how and by what, if a specific mechanic bothers you, it's just that you are closed in mind, why a dugtrio is less healthy than 'a drapion which little killed these counter with crit 50% of the time? the drapion which kills are counter little potencielment 6-0 a team, the dugtrio little trap a pokemon, not 6-0 all alone a team he helps like a support nothing more

    - Let me explain you two things: First, Drapion's role is to wallbreak. Second Dugtrio's role is to support the rest of the team by removing threats they struggle to handle. Comparing them is like comparing Carrots with a submarine.

     

    last incredible thing, the terrible dugtrio loses the 1vs1 against electric type, he loses vs pickachu (bulff + extreme speed) he loses vs rottom specter, he loses vs elektross, if you played manetric scarf he cannot come on you either easily it will be a 50-50 between volt switch or not, can not also come free on stunfisk because do not ohko

    Then good thing Dugtrio isn't used to trap those. (Wait, I meant bad thing)

     

    There are surely other example arguments that I could give you but I think that is enough, because by complaining you have not really given good arguments to ban the terrible dugtrio

     

     

     
     

    Thank you all for my pep talk about Dugtrio. As I said before this mon is negatively restraining the tier, and usage of the most common Pokemon shows this very well. 

    I'm not sure when I am able to discuss again, so I guess have fun.

  4. 40 minutes ago, CREELAST said:

    I understand what you are saying, believe me I have more than 2000 hours played on this, I have a win rate between 61% - 64%, I have played more than 2000 qualifying games in all the history that I have been playing, and it is true that pokemon is a to adapt, we all do it, I did it at the beginning, and even so there are times when you can't simply with the team that you take to those games, it's something like the rain that sweeps teams of players with (70% - 80% of win rate) and those players simply cannot counteract the rain because their team does not allow them to do so, that same team that led them to have that win rate (which is supposed to be a good team), well the same thing happens with these "players" , only that what happens is that rain is generally offensive, which means that the game would not last so many turns, which is what happens, the games vs rain are decided in the early game, BUT the games with this type of players do not They are short, they are absurdly long, which in the opinion of many hos is boring.
    Be honest please, you would not like to have a more offensive goal and that the games are defined by the predits of the players, or by the surprise moves, or by the ev training that makes the poke ready for a situation in specific, or by the use of damage reducers, etc. ((All this demonstrating the skill and experience of the player in combat)). I was also like you before my friend, I thought that the problem is the players and the style of play of those guys with 6 walls was fine, but over time I realized that it is not like that, it is a boring style of play for which He has been playing for 2 hours and also for the one who has been playing for 3000 hours, if a limit would be set like the idea you mentioned in previous posts, the game would not only be friendlier for new players, more frenzied, etc. But for all of us who enjoy this game, those of 40% - 50% - 60% and even those of 70% - 80% would enjoy it more, since they would not find these games, think about it friend

    I will try to clarify something here. It is not the experience of a player in a battle that makes the games much longer/shorter (Yes, it has some impact, but imo, almost irrelevant). On the same note, winrate also doesn't necessarily correlate to the length of the games. What does correlate is the way teams are built. 

     

    Let me give you an example. My games are usually around 10 mins, even against stall teams. If I gave my teams to you your games would be short, and since you aren't experienced with them, they could be slightly shorter or longer, but never long because my teams are unable to drag the game without already breaking through the enemy. Nothing changes except a more experienced player has higher success with any team than a less experienced one.

    By the same logic, I am sure that if I was to use your teams, my games would be long, because those teams, as you claim, are unable to break Stall and there is no amount of skill (Unless one player is a God and the other a potato) that changes this fact. 

    Winrate should show how experience /successful a player is with any given team in a given meta. Game length is ultimately decided not by the skill put into the actual match but in the teambuilding. If you claim your team is unable to get short games, that isn't a YOU problem nor a STALL problem, it is an YOUR TEAM problem, and as such, since you dislike lengthy battles, it only means that team isn't fit for you.

     

    If you wish I can give you some teams I use. They take time to get used to it, but you'll soon realize your battles won't and can't be long. You either beat them or get beaten shortly. The only difference is the amount of success I, you or anyone can have with these teams.

     

    Hope I could clarify it.

  5. 3 minutes ago, caioxlive13 said:

    This end wall problem, once time that 6-wall team always have in high rank players, making the high rank match boring and low rank match more emocionant and relevant to assist.

    people likes to assist 5-15 match minutes that 45-90 minutes match.
    and people that play don't kept boring in matchmaking, to only face walls.

     

    This is Wrong and you should try to listen. 6-Wall team doesn't necessarily drag the game for long. What it does is exhaust the enemy team's resources until they are unable to keep going with momento and therefore crumble. This also mean that while a Wall team against a Wall team will most likely drag, a wall team against an offensive team will not. In this latter case, either the wall team exhausts the offensive team quickly enough and wins, or the offensive team punches through the defensive team quickly enough and wins. As an offensive player, pretty much all all my games are within the 10 min mark, no matter if I face offense or defense. 

     

    The problem here is not the wall teams. It is you failed to adapt your team to deal with those, and therefore lack an way to punch through the defense system, thus dragging the game. Do not ever forget a Pokemon game is played by 2 players. If your games drag for needlessly long, opposing wall teams are just part of the problem, the other part is your own team. My advice is actually try to learn and gather information, and pick wallbreakers that destroy stall. I have seen players with less than 2 months actually succeed and reach top 100, so there is no reason for you, or anyone else for that matter, to struggle where they did not. As long as you learn how to adapt, I promise you will have a much greater time playing this game. It is not easy, and you will not learn everything in 1 day or 1 week, but with some effort and adaptation anyone can do it. 

  6. 4 minutes ago, CREELAST said:

    Yes in short it is what you said, but there are some errors.

    Those of us who think about this, it's not just me and the "newbies" as you call it, what happens is that you have to get out of your buddy bubble, if the players with 6 walls don't make a problem for you, and all the players of your level (70% - 80%) of win rate they do not have a problem with this, ok, I understand, but you have to understand something, most are the one who commands and most do not play at those levels, the " rookies "as you call us, which I see a bit derogatory, but well that's not the point, the point is that to the vast majority of players, not only does it seem boring ((method is played with 6 walls)), but annoying excuse me for the word, but it's SICK to deal with that kind of game for us, come out of your bubble for a while and ask the "novice" players what we feel when we play with one of these guys, come out of your world for a while, and ask them what they think of those people, and maybe that's how you understand, how disgusting it is to play with "6 walls style of play, I'll take you to the hour starting, yes 100+, that didactic, hilarious, and I REPEAT the "newbies" who think this to put a limit of walls like 3 or 4, as I mentioned above, WE ARE NOT THE MINORITY.

    You bring a valid point about newer players struggling more against more defensive teams. However, just like any game, the competitive meta is, and should be, decided solely by competitive aspects, and not knowing the game isn't one of them. 

    Examples:

    if I start play Yu-gi-oh and struggle against OTK decks that summon 560 monsters in half a turn, but the top players don't, it is a ME problem and the meta shouldn't, in any case, change because of it. 

    If I start playing League, and my ADC is always rekt by the bulky bruisers with some sort of CC because I cannot successfully poke or engage at a perfect time, that is a newbie problem and shouldn't reflect the meta.

    I get that it may be annoying for you. It was annoying for me and for many others. But luckily you don't need to be a pro. Most of top 100 nowadays aren't even that good and if they are there, it is because they succeed. All you need to understand, for now, is that some matchups are inherently easy/hard for others. If you struggle with Wall teams, nothing prevents you from picking a taunt Hydreigon or a Banded Darmanitan, or even a mixed Dragonite or a Sheer Force Conkeldurr and destroy them left and right. 

     

    Now I will try to explain why your logic is flawed with a bit of bias. I am mostly an offensive player. Most of my teams, the moment I build them, are inherently weak to Rain teams, and they make me have to go through outrageously cycles of outplays to even have a chance of winning. Does this make Rain broken? No, this means Rain has a superior matchup against my teams. So what do I have to do? Adapt, and change the team in order to be slightly more resilient to said Rain. In other words, Rain isn't problematic because it shutdowns Hyper offense, the same way full Stall isn't problematic just because it shutdowns specific balanced builds that do not pack an wallbreaker. So, all you need is to adapt.

     

    In sum, I believe anyone is entitled to their opinion, even newer guys, but I also believe newer guys should try to learn from what more experienced people say. If successful people claim Walls aren't problematic then most likely they are not and there are plenty of ways to deal with those (skillfully). The problem I see is that some (not all) newer people are just incredibly stubborn and believe Pokemon is a game where everything should work equally, and therefore their teams and their style should equally work against everything. (Trust me I used to be like this), where in reality Pokemon is simply an adapting process, where some styles are inherently weaker than others, and as such anyone, new or old, should and try to use teams that succeed against the given meta.

     

    There are also plenty of guides in these forums to check out and learn from.

    I hope I could send the message I wanted.

  7. Let me share my personal opinions of Dugtrio.
    First of all, I really love the way Zymogen has explained why this Mon isn't healthy for the tier. (I can even agree it is also not healthy in any tier, but the way it stands in NU currently is just more problematic than in other tiers) 
     

    For the sake of usage itself, I'll consider the 42 most used Pokemon last month. In other words, anything 4+% usage. 

    Dugtrio has 3 viable trapping sets, although it can do more with a support variant to rock/memento/etc. It has lackluster defenses, but it is equipped with a perfect typing and speed for the optimal job: Trapping, that is able to trap whatever it wants to trap, reliably.

     

     

    List of Pokemon Choice Band Dugtrio traps

     

    Spoiler

    Clefable

    Zoroark

    Steelix *

    Houndoom

    Drapion

    Typhlosion

    Golem

    Nidoqueen

    Gallade

    Espeon
    Manectric

    Pikachu

    Omastar

    Magmortar

     

    Note it is also able to finish off slightly weakened threats, such as Offensive Venusaur/Kangaskhan, and although it doesn't trap the following, it is able to pressure and beat Rotom/Froslass once Hazard damage has been put into effect.

     

    * - May or may not trap depending on spread.

    Summary: 14 Pokemon effortlessly trapped, under common conditions + Pressure on at least 4 opposing Pokemon, under more niche conditions such as prior weakening.

     

    List of Pokemon Choice Scarf Dugtrio traps

     

    Spoiler

    Blaziken

    Houndoom

    Typhlosion

    Nidoqueen

    Manectric

    Pikachu

    Magmortar

     

    More restrictive than Scarf, but gains the potential of Trapping Scarf Blaziken, the most common scar user in the tier. It also is able to trap some other Pokemon listed in the Band section, although not as reliably (EX: Non-boosted item Espeon/Zoroark). Scarf also has the niche of trapping an already set Omastar.

     

    List of Pokemon Sash Dugtrio traps

     

    Spoiler

    The most common used item. Not optimal as a trapping Mon, but also allows for a more supportive approach.

    Here I will not take rocks into account, for one major reason: Any player that has Sash in their Dugtrio should, whenever as possible, send it once they clean the field. In other words strong hazard cleaning partners are used, and therefore it only makes sense to disregard them in this case.

     

    Venusaur *

    Clefable *

    Zoroark (Except sucker punch versions)

    Houndoom

    Drapion

    Typhlosion

    Golem

    Nidoqueen

    Espeon
    Manectric

    Pikachu

    Omastar

    Magmortar

     

    * - Only with Screech variant

     

    Note that Sash Dugtrio can effectively trap Absol/Gallade with any prior damage, the latter in case it doesn't possess Drain Punch.

     

    The main difference between Sash/Choice Band, imo, is that although Sash Traps potentially even more threats, it requires absolute hazard clean support. On the other hand, Sash allows for more risky plays against threats that it is able to ohko at will. 

     

     

     

    For obvious reasons, I will ignore meme sets that further boost its trapping capacity such as Specs Earth Power or Sash hidden power fire to trap the likes of Steelix/Escavalier. 

     

    In sum, Dugtrio is able to beat almost half of the common tier, while effortlessly trapping more than one third of it. This creates a negative mentality and unhealthy pressure to any of the stated Pokemon, just like Zymogen kindly explained perfectly, while also preventing effective teambuilding, since Dugtrio alone helps any team to get rid of any Weakness they inherently possess.

     

    Furthermore, I also believe Dugtrio is overcentralizing, and has shifted the tier negatively. For instance, Houndoom and Drapion were top 5 Pokemon before it dropped, and now they are #14 and #20 respectively. Other trapped Pokemon like Typhlosion, Espeon and Zoroark have also dropped, and less relevantly Manectric. On the other hand, Pokemon that inherently immune to the trap or don't mind it have increased a lot.

     

    Finally, allow me to speak to the community. I don't agree with Munya's statistical approach, but I can understand it. Because of this I'd like the community to know that any extra feedback helps us discuss more eventual issues, not only bringing us any new issue we have not considered yet, but also to help us discuss already considered issues with new perspectives.

     

    Please add only constructive criticism, because otherwise it will not be considered, for obvious reasons. However, and I'll repeat once again, any explained input and reasoning is considered in our inner discussions, and that is why I'd welcome you, the community, to share more openly any concern you may have regarding eventual issues.

     

    TLDR; Voice your opinions. If you believe they are worth discussing, explain why. It may not look like but they are always considered and they vastly help some of us sharing different perspectives regarding any issue we face. 

     

     

    Thank you all. 

  8. I am on the fence about Lucario, so I can understand both sides. Haxorus, however, is a) harder to revenge kill due to pure dragon typing and above average physical bulk, and b) Had, in UU, literally 1 answer, in the past, in the form of Mandibuzz, that currently is OU. There are both no answers to Haxorus, and 97 base speed in UU is actually absurd, outspeeding grand majority of the metagame. Whatever the consensus about Lucario is, I will stick to the opinion Haxorus is just much worse and has no place in our UU metagame.

  9. Let's start:

     

    https://pokepast.es/95f44076486d484e

     

    It's a bulky offense Team around Gastrodon. 

    First off, although the team looks defensive in the first glance, it is supposed to be used as a pressuring team that relies on stacking damage before Mamoswine/Sigilyph can clean it up.

     

    Teambuilding process: 

    Gastrodon

    Spoiler

    One of the Pokemon out of the 4 that adds more utility to any given team, helping against Rotom-h, Scarf physical threats and water spam. Earthquake is used to pressure special versions of Empoleon and offensive Roserades, both which are 2hkoed. 

     

     

    Gigalith

    Spoiler

    Excels at handling Sigilyph, Yanmega and Porygon-z, which were the three main offensive threats towards Gastrodon. Adamant with special defense investment is the most optimal spread overall. Gigalith sets sand to stack damage, which the team capitalizes in. Rocks + Earthquake ensure only Donphan and Forretress can attempt to remove its rocks unpunished. Superpower forces an early recover of P2, or even breaking it down, as well as surprise damage on some offensive switches, or 1v1 scouted scarf Krookodile, and chipping Bronzong since it is needed in this team.

     

     

    Slowbro

    Spoiler

    Heracross and Medicham are problematic against the first two mons. I could pick either Gligar or Slowbro, good against the respective first and second threats. I chose Slowbro because of Rocky Helmet, which allows the team to chip stuff like Staraptor, Heracross, Medicham or even Krookodile (in a pinch) to clean them with Mamoswine later. Not only that but Rocky Helmet also puts Forretress on a timer, preventing it from removing rocks often, especially since it has no recovery and is constantly pressured by this team. Psyshock over Psychic for higher damage on Lanturn and shenanigans against rare Venomoths.

     

     

    Heracross

    Spoiler

    Huge threats against the first three Pokemon are named Roserade and Heracross. I wanted an offensive slot that mitigated them, and I found bulky Heracross. It outspeeds timid/Jolly Empoleons as well as neutral Metagross/Bisharp/etc. Close to max hp + leftovers to maximize bulk potential. The attack investment is enough to break what it can break nevertheless. Knock off disrupts switch-ins, mostly Gligar and Crobat or even forretress, whenever Close Combat is deemed useless. Heracross also is able to spam Knock fairly easily since it boasts key resistances and bulk as well as having free matchup against most Slowbro switches that fall into Teleport. Aerial ace reflects its wanted ability to mitigate other Heracrosses and Roserades. Spikes further heighten the hazard stacking damage, although it is possibly the less useful move and easily replaceable. Note that Knock off also pairs nicely with sand

     

     

    Mamoswine

    Spoiler

    I like two offensive rockers in a team. Mamoswine seemed to fit this perfectly, abusing stack damage from hazards + sand + Rocky to clean with Ice shard. It also completely doesn't care about Crobat/Empoleon, and Rotom-H has issues coming in Superpower, moreso when Gastro and Gigalith are in the team. Forretress is horribly pressure by everything else so shouldn't be a problem. Nevermeltice pretty much guarantees an ohko on offensive Roserade, preventing it to stack more weaknesses on this team.

     

    Sigilyph

    Spoiler

    The obvious needed Poke to fit a special attacker slot. Doesn't care about hazard damage, which is needed since no defog control. It further pressures Heracross/Roserade, as well as Yanmega and P-z, and most importantly, Bronzong, that is somewhat annoying to deal with under some circunstances. Finally it also offers an important extra fighting resist.  3/4 of the set is self-explanatory. Protect allows it to capitalize on the team's ability to stack damage, by scouting Moves from threats like Staraptor/Krookodile and then switch to the appropriate Pokemon. 

     

    Extra note: evs on Gastro optimize overall bulk, while retaining leftovers numbers. Evs on Sigilyph are so it can invest in both hp/spatk/speed and also make it so Porygon-z boosts the wrong stat.

     

  10. 10 hours ago, BaldManGoat said:

    As for quick claw, I have no clue what the argument is for it. "you have no fucking clue if a mon does have it", lets say I bring a specs torkoal into a battle under a trick room and blow up your entire team, is specs unfair because "who would've thought a torkoal would bring specs?" 

    You don't understand the key difference between hax items and everything else. Yes, you don't know if enemy Torkoal is specs, scarf, charcoal, leftovers, mail pr even adamantium orb. It doesn't matter. The player who is using the Torkoal knows what its Torkoal can do, and play skillfully with it, gaining advantage for its surprise factor over the enemy. If you slap a goddamn Quick Claw on Torkoal, not even the enemy, not Gods, and hell not even you can predict when the item is going to trigger, therefore there is no possible skill involved in a play around it, from neither of battlers. In other words, a competitive game becames not competitive at all, because no side is able to use their skill to find the most favorable play.

     

    As for Crit items. First, unlike Quick Claw and King's rock whose sole purpose is to force uncontrolled rng, Crit items are used to combo with abilities or high crit moves to have  50 or 100% chance to grant the holder a critical hit.

     

    Finally, preparing for Scarf Togekiss is possible, since you are allowed, in the teambuilding process, to slap a mon in your team that beats it, like Special defensive Tyranitar or, to the extreme, Special defensive Dragonite, that cannot flinch. Also, scarf Togekiss is easily scoutable within the match, allowing for the enemy to actually play around it in the most optimized way. Now, how do you prepare for stuff like Quick Claw or King's rock? You don't. How do you scout these items within a battle? You dont, unless of course they trigger, which means a) A competitive game was already skewed by uncompetitive mechanics, and b) The scouting itself requires events that happen by 'luck', meaning you can't even scout the item properly without both sides relying on these unwanted events beforehand.

     

    I butchered English but whatever.

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