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Tier Council
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  1. Guess my memory is garbage on Blaziken then, whoops. Slowbro dropping is a pretty big deal for allowing it though, and it's already got pretty high usage. With that being said, fair point, I'll give you Blaziken. I'm not gonna say much on the Bisharp point, because this has been discussed to death and, yes, I get it, I just think you're overstating things. And yes, I'm fine with testing Bisharp anyway, so there's not much to discuss there; Consider that a "yes" for Bisharp. I get why you mentioned Azumarill and are drawing the comparisons to OU, I just think they kind of make your post flimsy. The only real reason you've consistently mentioned for dropping Mamo has basically been "Bronzong exists", which is true, and helps for sure, but I don't think is altogether a super great reason. Bronzong is definitely a pretty good answer for Mamo, but I don't think the existence of a single pretty solid answer instantly stops something from being an Offensive Uber. Particularly since Bronzong isn't a pokemon with indefinite, reliable recovery, in addition to the fact it's vulnerable to trapping. I think it's pretty telling that your argument for Mamo, despite the fact you've been pushing it for months, still isn't much other than "Bronzong exists, and yeah it's probably too good, but what if it isn't?". I get the idea that testing it is better than not, but you just haven't said much of substance as to why it's worth testing.
  2. I don't really have much to reply to the post overall, since most of the actual points regarding Mamo/Bisharp have been discussed to death by now. I'll just give a brief summary of my opinion on the matter, and then give a reply to the last paragraph, since I think it brings the most new to the table: For Bisharp, I don't think the addition of Team Preview fixes it as much as you might think. Most of your points as to Bisharp's weaknesses were still pretty relevant back when it was actually UU, and I think the effect Team Preview has on it is pretty overstated. With that being said, it's far from the strongest thing ever dropped in UU, and testing it again is probably worth trying. I'm not really super opposed to it, I just think your points aren't really that solid when you consider that it's been banned prior. For Mamo, you barely really even give many reasons for it can drop. Regardless of whether it could actually reasonably be tested, "UU has Azumarill than can revenge kill it kinda good and Bronzong walls it, even though UU doesn't have the stuff that stops it in OU" is a pretty non-convincing argument. Frankly, if you just want to test it for the sake of testing it, saying that is probably more convincing than what you've said. Now, that last bit is interesting. First of all, saying "We assumed Blaziken was going to be broken in NU" is a pretty bad argument for this. Unless I'm wrong, Blaziken hasn't had usage to drop to NU until recently, and although our first assumption is that it'd probably be too good, upon thinking about it, we allowed it to drop without much resistance. It's a complete non-comparison, because at this point, it's obvious we're not blocking Bisharp/Mamo from pure "knee-jerk assumption" like is implied here. Kingdra Sniper is also a non-comparable comparison. That was mostly an edge case, as it was effectively added to the game in a patch post large update that added Draco Meteor. When that happened, we decided to just wait the ~2 weeks for the next usage movement/update as opposed to instantly moving it, mostly because we already did a bunch of movements like a week prior. It's a pretty different situation, and it was banned pretty immediately after. Haxorus is more comparable, and for that, that was a good amount of backlash. Pretty sure we mostly agreed it was a bad call anyway. Sure, testing Mamo/Bisharp might be more consistent with testing Haxorus, but if it was a bad decision anyway, why should we commit to being consistent with it instead of making different decisions? TL;DR: Bisharp testing is whatever, don't mind that much, I just don't think the result will be that different. Mamo is still a no from me dog. Not really convinced by most of your points.
  3. So, I'm gonna go ahead and beat a dead horse, because it seems really obvious that these Gen 5-based arguments regarding the Sheer Force LO Set vs. Guts FO are comically out of place, even aside from the reasons people have mentioned. So, first of all, yes, as everyone has already said, there are tons of pokemon in Gen 5 that we don't have in PokeMMO that contribute to LO SF being better. However, more specifically, it isn't just the greater amount of things that can switch in on Conkel and handle it defensively that matter, but the diversity of such things, and how much harder the average Gen 5 threat hits. The lost coverage the Bulk Up set has and the fact that it relies much more on setting up is a lot worse in Gen 5's meta, where things hit insanely hard, with everything outspeeding you. In that environment, Conkel really needs to make the turns it comes in count, so it's obvious the more immediately impactful set with better coverage is better. With that being said, there's 2 other significant differences between PokeMMO and 5th gen. First of all, in gen 5, Burn does full 12.5% chip instead of 6.25%, making the drawback of being burnt significantly larger than it is in PokeMMO. Taking literally double the chip damage, especially on a set that can't run leftovers and is outsped by basically everything, is a pretty big deal. Not only that, but Gen 5 relied exclusively on Rapid Spin for hazard removal, as new Defog mechanics weren't until Gen 6, making hazard stacking a powerful tactic. Sure, Conkel resists SR, but in a metagame where spikestacking was deadly and common, Conkel got massively chipped out. Then throw in the popularity of sand teams and perma-sand frequently chipping Conkel down even further limiting it's usage, giving the Guts set heavy anti-synergy with most Sand based teams. So, Conkel was stuck in a meta where most threats hit way harder than they do in PokeMMO while still being outsped by basically everything, and where it takes massive chip damage constantly. Since it's so slow it has to rely on bulk to survive, it's no surprise that the Flame Orb set, which exacerbates the massive weakness to chip damage it has while also wanting a turn of setup it can't afford to get, was less popular than the Sheer Force set. It really couldn't afford to stick around too long, it needed to come in and provide immediate impact on the game, because it simply takes too much damage from too many sources constantly, and you can't rely just on Drain Punch; You're gonna have to use your coverage moves, or you'll just get walled, chipped out, and die without doing anything.
  4. so a snipped the bits I'm not gonna reply to or were mostly filler. First of all, some of your main points for these formats are that they're easier/cheaper to enter due to requiring less pokemon, and that they're faster. However, you also acknowledge in "Disadvantages" that these formats actually DO require 6 pokemon, as you bring a team of 6 and then select the pokemon you'll use, and that formats like these are typically Best of 3, so it doesn't make matches TOO much faster, since you're playing more games to compensate. So, based on this, you're already aware that a good half of the points in favor of these formats aren't really true. You still need 6 pokemon to play them, and although the games are faster, you have to play more of them. Plus, people will probably push the timer a lot further in these shorter games, since they have less turns to worry about timer management. Ultimately, I wouldn't be surprised if it Bo3 sets were faster on average, especially because of the 2-0 blowouts, but it shouldn't actually be insanely significant. Ultimately, though, aside from all that, not wanting to divide the PvP Playerbase is a pretty big deal. It's why the TC doesn't want to add RU; NU is already struggling with relevancy & support, why add another format? Adding alternative OU formats would make the problem even worse. There's already a pretty decent variety of tier options in the game, and sometimes there's even gimmick tournaments, more official, major formats aren't really necessary right now.
  5. Yes, I am aware of how speed boost works, both normally & in PokeMMO. No, it being better than it normally is in the games is not automatically grounds for banning it. A lot of things aren't implemented 100% correctly in MMO, and that can include implementing things in a way that makes them better than they should be (see: Rage Powder), but that isn't automatically grounds for banning it. They have to be problematic in order to actually deserve a ban. Yes, this bug makes it so that there are less things that can come in and answer a Speed Boost Yanmega offensively. With that being said, Yanmega isn't running over UU right now, so obviously, having less checks isn't making Yanmega an insane god level threat. If Yanmega isn't problematic even with this bug, it's clear that it still has enough answers to be reasonable, even with less answers available. Until the bug is fixed, if you consider Yanmega to be a problem, you should use some of the alternative answers.
  6. It might make Yanmega better than normal, but even with this, Yanmega isn't doing enough in UU to be super problematic anyway, so a ban's not warranted. It's also worth mentioning that AFAIK this bug has been around since Speed Boost was implemented, so it's probably just something we're gonna have to live with until they get around to it.
  7. are we just going to ignore how hilariously wrong this is? No, hidden abilities did not exist in gen 1 & 2. And I can see this with certainty, because, you know, no abilities existed in gen 1 and 2, abilities were added in gen 3. More importantly, actual hidden abilities weren't added until Gen 5, the generation PokeMMO is currently on. In gen 5, Hidden Abilities were not all released at once. In fact, similar to the plan for dungeons releasing them in PokeMMO, hidden abilities in gen 5 were essentially drip-fed to players over time. Some Hidden Abilities were straight up never released in gen 5, only being released later, or in some cases (Shadow Tag Chandelure), having their HA changed in gen 6+ after never being released in gen 5. A lot of your arguments seem to hinge on an appeal to "Well, HA's were always a thing, so they should be in the game", but that's just obviously not true at all.
  8. You do know pokemon in the cartridge games only disobeyed you if they didn't originate from your game and were instead traded in, right?
  9. Okay, let's analyze this; Let's look at what's wrong with Clubs as they are now, and what these updates will do to change things. To do this, I'm going to give you the perspective of how I (and probably more than a few other people) used Round Table, and how this translates to how unusable Clubs are for this. So, previously, with round table, it'd go like this: See new posts in the Round Table subforum Click on the subforum, glance over at what team threads have new activity. If I care about any of those teams, I click to see the newest posts. Appreciate whatever drama/bantz/shitposts are in the thread, and maybe participate Pretty straightforward. Now, let's see the process as of right now: Decide, out of my own volition, to click Clubs for some reason, since there's no clear indicator of new posts. I could follow the forum threads, but understandably, I don't want to get a notification literally any time anyone posts in any of the several team threads I might be interested in viewing. Yes, there's "Recent Activity", but it doesn't go very far; All it takes is like 5 posts in 1 thread in quick succession and I don't know the status of the team threads in any other clubs. I'm in clubs, now what? Well, if I want to look at the team thread of a club I decided to join, thankfully, there's a "My Clubs" area to easily find them. If it's a club I'm not in & don't want to join for any particular reason, I have to go find it. I click whatever Club I want to look at, ending up at the home page, which is basically worthless. I guess I can glance it to determine if there's any new content in the team thread, but I can't really look down the timeline to read the thread, so it's not really useful for much else. I go to the forum topics. I click on the team thread and look at the posts. If I want to look at any other team thread, instead of going back up to the RT subforum and clicking another thread, I have to go back to the Club section and go through steps 2-5 again, which is way more of a hassle, especially since I have to effectively check every single relevant club section to even know if there's new content worth checking for. This is especially bad since this negative feedback loop has resulted in the team threads I care about being basically dead, so it's not even worth clicking on the club section anymore to see if anything's new, or post new content myself. So, what's the problem here, exactly? The problem is 2 major problems: One, there's an entire 2 extra steps, of clicking on the club, and then clicking on their subforum to get to the team thread. The second major problem is that the team threads are no longer aggregated in 1 page, but separated into their own clubs, meaning that these 2 extra steps become a shit ton of extra steps if you're trying to look at more than 1 team thread, and it's especially problematic because unlike before, it's not obvious what team threads have new content worth viewing. Okay, so now that we've established this, let's see what the new features do to fix this: "Club Content throughout the community": From what I can tell, this allows you to easily aggregate the subforums of individual clubs, putting them together and letting you visit them. This effectively cuts out 1 of the 2 extra steps, because you don't need to look at the garbage home page! And it even seems to tell you when new posts are here, like in the old round table, so it's kind of like how it was before? It's definitely more convenient than now. But it still has the obnoxious caveat that you have to be in the club to see the subforums here, which is especially obnoxious if teams decide to switch to "Read Only" so that non-team members can still view the content, but make it so only team members can actually join the club, as "Read Only" clubs, as far as I can tell, won't show up here. Really, this update does make Clubs way more usable, even though there's still an extra unnecessary step involved. With that being said, I'm still not actually convinced it'll completely solve the issue; Read Only clubs are an attractive setting option for people who want their club content to be looked at, but don't want randos posting in their team threads. Unfortunately, this also means that if people start using it, pretty much everything that makes Clubs more usable in the update is basically irrelevant for any clubs you aren't invited to. Yeah yeah yeah, "then maybe they shouldn't make their clubs Read Only and live in Public mode forever" jajaja I get it, but it's still a problem. I'd also still rather not join the club of random teams I'm not actually in just so I can actually look at their team threads in an even slightly convenient way, but I doubt a solution to this is ever going to exist. TL;DR: 4.3 makes any Clubs you are in infinitely more usable/readable. Read Only is a great feature for team clubs hypothetically, but since it precludes the part of the update that makes clubs actually usable for looking at the team threads, I don't think it's actually helpful. Being forced to join clubs of teams you aren't in just to be able to look at their team thread without going through a summoning ritual is still ass. There's still an entire extra step even with the improvements that wasn't there before even in a perfect world, and that sucks, but idk that's life I guess. Clubs you haven't joined are still basically unusable for regular team thread shitposting purposes, so you're gonna have to join every even remotely interesting looking club.
  10. I don't understand why you felt this was appropriate? It wasn't really an attack on Kizhaz, but an attack on the incredulity of the statement, because the comment legitimately makes no sense. I don't know how to tell you this, but you're making a game for the players. If the players don't feel something is worthwhile, then there's a reason they do so. This isn't an uncommon sentiment either, so the idea that players would just "lower their expectations", especially considering this system has been around for quite a while, is completely absurd. The fact of the matter is, regardless of whether it is worthwhile or not from your perspective, if the players don't feel it's worthwhile, it really doesn't matter. You could sit here all day and lecture people about how worthwhile and well balanced prizes are right now from your perspective as a designer, but if the players don't feel that way and the game is suffering because of it, then obviously you need to reevaluate something in the system.
  11. Listen, I know you're new around here, and don't understand the finer points of the delicate political and societal ecosystem of the PokeMMOTM landscape, but I will not sit here quietly and take this blatant disrespect of the most esteemed PokeMMO political office. First of all, Bestfriends is a long time and beloved member of the community, providing quality of content for dedicated PokeMMOTM players, such as coverage on ingame playthroughs, and even brief discussions of pokemon outside of story, looking at notable pokemon like Hercalacross and Sailamence. Sure, it's his first time in office, and he hasn't done a significant amount, but he had to take time to hand select his cabinet, a strenuous and time consuming task. To say he hasn't done anything and deserves no such title, despite his past contributions and the fact he won the election is blatant slander. Quite frankly, it's nothing less than political mudslinging of the lowest degree. He hasn't demanded any sort of respect from any authority, not that he needs to. You said it yourself; You don't even understand what the mayorship placement entails, and yet you're outright flaming and aggrieving this man for doing his best in his elected position. Speaking of demanding respect, you made time to advertise your own thread, with your own VERY IMPORTANTTM DONUT STEEL Super Survey That Will Stay On Everyone's Permanent Records as a completely shoehorned addition to your post. It isn't enough to outright insult our mayor, but you also have to advertise your own content? Well, I guess all that matters is you've found a way to feel superior to everyone involved in the election and everyone who posts on the forums at the same time, so you've got that going for you. Yes, the first post of the thread is garbage. Unfortunately, after the complete and utter collapse of the original Mayoral Regime after the devastating Riga.exe bombings of February, the original systems in place for this system were destroyed, and Fred was the only person who could run the election. Yes, it wasn't professional, and yes, it made the position seem like a joke, but to anyone experienced in the community, lengthy prose about it's importance isn't necessary; it's understood implicitly. Ultimately, the person going around the forums actively aggrieving people and spamming links to their thread is not our Divine Emperor, Mayor, and Supreme Authority of All Things Above Bestfriends, it's you. And if you can't even manage some Poke-Respect for our mayor, then I don't know how you can expect to receive and Poke-Respect yourself. From my perspective, the troll here isn't Bestfriends, it's you. Additionally, just to explain some of the roles of the mayor and the benefits it provides to the community, since you professed to not understanding it, allow me to list them: The mayor maintains order, acting as a speaking point and representative of multiple facets of the PokeMMO community. They assist new players, educating them and introducing them to larger groups of the community to become involved. They maintain a constant thumb on the pulse of the playerbase, listening for discontent and attempting to resolve problems. They are literally granted divine powers and hold a great sway on the growth of our crops, ensuring we survive the winter. Quite frankly, you should do more research before posting.
  12. You bring up a good point, actually. When is pokemmo gonna legalize cannabis? We've got farming system with all sorts of berries, but we can't grow this?? I vote we completely remove Gems and replace them with various strains of cannabis.
  13. so, these types are super effective against earth AND resist it? no variation whatsoever? I'm very disappointed.
  14. VGC isn't a constant format, it's a format that changes every year at the whim of Gamefreak. In case that isn't clear enough, there isn't really any plans to implement VGC, nor would it really be that feasible to implement it well anyway. If by "VGC" you just mean the format of 4v4 doubles, then that's not really planned either. RU isn't planned at all at the moment either, and is pretty unlikely in general.
  15. I have literally no idea what point you're trying to prove, or what argument you're trying to make. It's been stated before, quite clearly, with no real room to interpretation, that the shiny rate is not only variable, but variable on an individual player level, affected by certain actions (presumably with your odds decreasing if you seem to be a bot). It's possible that things have changed in the ~2/3 years since this was announced, but we haven't received any information otherwise, and there's no real reason to believe it has. I have no idea what you expect to prove by trying to get people to waste their time on something that's already been verified, getting them to slog through 100,000 encounters, an entirely arbitrary number, just to "verify" something to you.
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