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Senile

Tier Council
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  1. Due to this being the first "real" movement change since the update fully implementing most moves/abilities/items, there are a lot of tier shifts this month, including a few quickbans. With that in mind, here are the shifts: Moving up from UU to OU: Breloom Cofagrigus Moving up from BL to OU: Kingdra Haxorus Chansey All of these pokemon were above the 4.36% cutoff for usage in OU. Moving up from NU to UU: Houndoom Sigilyph Moving up from BL2 to UU: Gligar Venomoth All of these pokemon were above the 4.36% cutoff for usage in UU. Moving up from UU to BL: Bisharp Bisharp was already a prominent UU threat before the update, but now that Defiant works properly, it has become outright absurd. It punishes Defog absurdly hard, and without Team Preview, the opponent doesn't even know if they should play around it until it's too late. This was already a cause for concern, however, the usage movements mean that its best offensive check, Breloom, is getting moved up to OU. This pretty easily pushed it over the top; Where there might have been room for deliberation beforehand, its already insane presence along with the loss of one of its most highly used and effective answers makes it obviously too good. With that in mind, Bisharp is banned from UU. Moving down from OU to UU: Snorlax Snorlax dropped below the 4.36% cutoff for usage in OU. Moving down from OU to BL: Mamoswine Mamoswine dropped to UU by usage, however, the TC decided to quickban it from UU. Ultimately, it is likely far too effective to be allowed in UU. Although its oldest and most reliable counter Bronzong is in the tier, that's the most UU can easily do to handle it. It is fast, strong, has good STABs, and Ice Shard as priority. Other than Bronzong, defensive answers struggle with Mamoswine, and offensive checks are similarly sparse due to speed + priority. Things like Heracross and Typhlosion can outspeed and kill it easily, but they can't really afford to switch in a majority of the time. Most EQ immune pokemon that would be able to punish reckless EQ usage also have trouble with Ice Shard/Icicle Crash, with things like Flygon & Crobat not really being able to do much, despite an immunity to his main STAB. Beyond that, the most reliable answer, Bronzong, is both easily trapped by Magneton & easily worn down due to a lack of easy and reliable healing, such as Recover. Beyond that, most other answers suffer from either being unreliable in some way or leaning really hard on predictions, meaning any time Mamoswine comes in he'll force a hard 50/50 situation. Ultimately, due to Mamoswine's strength in dealing with both defensive threats with his raw power, and offensive threats with decent speed & Ice Shard, Mamoswine has been quickbanned from UU. Moving down from UU to BL2: Blaziken Blaziken dropped to NU by usage, but it has been quickbanned from NU. Even just using its 2 main Physical STABs, Superpower/HJK & Flare Blitz, it can easily tear apart most of the tier while also outspeeding a large majority of threats. The few things that aren't torn apart by those 2 moves can easily be handled by one of the many coverage options Blaziken has, between options like any Hidden Power, Night Slash/Shadow Claw, Tpunch, Stone Edge, etc., all of which it can easily afford to slot in due to the coverage Fire/Fighting provides. This isn't even acknowledging the base 110 special attack Blaziken has available to it, as we're only discussing the Physical set; It's simply too strong, and more importantly, versatile on top of that. With that in mind, Blaziken is quickbanned from NU. Murkrow banned from LC: One of the most contentious LC pokemon as the metagame has developed is Murkrow. Although Misdreavus stood out at first to many players, and it still remains an insanely versatile and splashable threat, the sheer strength Murkrow has is unrivaled. Base 91 speed is enough to match/outspeed almost the entire tier, while having some of the highest mixed offenses available. Not only that, but it has a good typing and an absurd movepool, being capable of doing basically anything that it wants. Even without Prankster, it can just run through most of the tier, while being very difficult to predict/scout. At the end of the day, it does too much & it does it too well. With that in mind, Murkrow is banned from LC. Additionally, although Misdreavus is still in LC, the TC will be looking at it following this ban.
  2. Senile

    [OU Discussion] Conkeldurr

    I can't even comprehend how you can say things like this unironically. Maybe you and I have been reading different threads, or participating in different discussions, but even amongst the people arguing for a complex ban on Conkeldurr you're the only person I've seen advocating for the ban of the EPunches on it. I've seen people say to get rid of Drain Punch, so it'll have less survivability. I've seen people argue to ban some combination of Guts + Orb, because that was what pushed it over the edge. I've even seen talks of banning Mach Punch, so it doesn't have a strong priority option and is stuck as a slow, bulky threat. It's very obvious that, no, this specific opinion that you have is not something everyone can agree on, and the fact that there's so much division on what would even be banned on Conkeldurr is itself a good reason to stray away from it. This thread is not to discuss potential Conkeldurr complex bans, or anything equally absurd. This is to discuss whether Conkeldurr deserves any kind of action. How that is implemented, whether it's a flat ban, or even the unlikely circumstance it somehow is a complex ban is not what is up for discussion here, that would be a decision for the TC. The discussion is should something be done at all about Conkeldurr? Is it that big of a problem?
  3. Senile

    OU Tier Discussion Request Thread

    So, I'm gonna go ahead and beat a dead horse, because it seems really obvious that these Gen 5-based arguments regarding the Sheer Force LO Set vs. Guts FO are comically out of place, even aside from the reasons people have mentioned. So, first of all, yes, as everyone has already said, there are tons of pokemon in Gen 5 that we don't have in PokeMMO that contribute to LO SF being better. However, more specifically, it isn't just the greater amount of things that can switch in on Conkel and handle it defensively that matter, but the diversity of such things, and how much harder the average Gen 5 threat hits. The lost coverage the Bulk Up set has and the fact that it relies much more on setting up is a lot worse in Gen 5's meta, where things hit insanely hard, with everything outspeeding you. In that environment, Conkel really needs to make the turns it comes in count, so it's obvious the more immediately impactful set with better coverage is better. With that being said, there's 2 other significant differences between PokeMMO and 5th gen. First of all, in gen 5, Burn does full 12.5% chip instead of 6.25%, making the drawback of being burnt significantly larger than it is in PokeMMO. Taking literally double the chip damage, especially on a set that can't run leftovers and is outsped by basically everything, is a pretty big deal. Not only that, but Gen 5 relied exclusively on Rapid Spin for hazard removal, as new Defog mechanics weren't until Gen 6, making hazard stacking a powerful tactic. Sure, Conkel resists SR, but in a metagame where spikestacking was deadly and common, Conkel got massively chipped out. Then throw in the popularity of sand teams and perma-sand frequently chipping Conkel down even further limiting it's usage, giving the Guts set heavy anti-synergy with most Sand based teams. So, Conkel was stuck in a meta where most threats hit way harder than they do in PokeMMO while still being outsped by basically everything, and where it takes massive chip damage constantly. Since it's so slow it has to rely on bulk to survive, it's no surprise that the Flame Orb set, which exacerbates the massive weakness to chip damage it has while also wanting a turn of setup it can't afford to get, was less popular than the Sheer Force set. It really couldn't afford to stick around too long, it needed to come in and provide immediate impact on the game, because it simply takes too much damage from too many sources constantly, and you can't rely just on Drain Punch; You're gonna have to use your coverage moves, or you'll just get walled, chipped out, and die without doing anything.
  4. I think your argument is ignoring something pretty important; If there is no trades and you buy a player who plays like shit for you all season, you just shafted yourself. Sure, it may not be fair if they'd play way better for another manager, but that also means that that player has a lot of value for other managers, that you might be able to use to get a player who will actually work a lot better on your team. If the argument is "some players will play worse for some managers regardless and we can't do anything about that", wouldn't trades, so that the manager isn't stuck with a sandbagging player the whole season, a better resolution than making sure they stay together?
  5. I mean, that's what happens when you draft the guy who literally hates you as a joke. No offense, but regardless of trades, if you draft someone you know hates you and will likely play worse on your team than on someone else's, you have made a mistake. This isn't problematic, this is the natural consequence of an obvious sequence of events. It's not unfair to doc at all, because he could have just not drafted someone who would very obviously do basically nothing on his team.
  6. I don't see what's so suspicious about the lifestyle trade, wasn't he like 4-1 before being traded? Far from trying to force a trade because you don't like your manager or whatever. The fred example is also pretty bad. Sure, fred didn't give a shit because he didn't like doc, but do you honestly believe he would have given a shit if trades weren't allowed? Whether trades were allowed or not, the outcome would have been the same. That's not a case of trying to force a trade to get on a team you want, that's just fred and doc having doing their usual bits. You say a player's performance shouldn't be determined by who their manager is, but realistically, this won't be the case, especially as long as their exist the docs of the world who buy fred for a giggle. However, we're not talking about player performance being affected by their manager, we're talking about player performance being affected specifically because they want to get traded to a different manager, which is very different. You could argue that, as long as trades exist, players have a larger incentive to play shitty to get traded off, but I think this is nowhere near as large of a factor as you're making it out to be. Fred would have played shitty on Doc's team regardless of trades, so that example is pretty nonsensical imo.
  7. so a snipped the bits I'm not gonna reply to or were mostly filler. First of all, some of your main points for these formats are that they're easier/cheaper to enter due to requiring less pokemon, and that they're faster. However, you also acknowledge in "Disadvantages" that these formats actually DO require 6 pokemon, as you bring a team of 6 and then select the pokemon you'll use, and that formats like these are typically Best of 3, so it doesn't make matches TOO much faster, since you're playing more games to compensate. So, based on this, you're already aware that a good half of the points in favor of these formats aren't really true. You still need 6 pokemon to play them, and although the games are faster, you have to play more of them. Plus, people will probably push the timer a lot further in these shorter games, since they have less turns to worry about timer management. Ultimately, I wouldn't be surprised if it Bo3 sets were faster on average, especially because of the 2-0 blowouts, but it shouldn't actually be insanely significant. Ultimately, though, aside from all that, not wanting to divide the PvP Playerbase is a pretty big deal. It's why the TC doesn't want to add RU; NU is already struggling with relevancy & support, why add another format? Adding alternative OU formats would make the problem even worse. There's already a pretty decent variety of tier options in the game, and sometimes there's even gimmick tournaments, more official, major formats aren't really necessary right now.
  8. With the upcoming update, most, if not all currently obtainable moves/abilities/items are expected to function. This includes the implementation of Draco Meteor, and by extension, Draco Meteor on Hydreigon. Due to the shift in Tiering Policy to avoid banning pokemon to Uber, and instead make ingame changes or tweaks, a proposition has been made to simply remove Draco Meteor from it's movepool before it is added, similar to the preemptive Outrage nerf. Although we strongly believe this will ensure that Hydreigon won't be banworthy anytime soon, we would still like community feedback on whether this measure would be necessary or preferred. Part of the reason Draco Meteor is specifically being chosen for omission is because it has not been added to the game yet, and so removing it from Hydreigon's movepool would be least disruptive way to alter Hydreigon. Additionally, if we do remove it, Draco Meteor can be added to Hydreigons movepool at a later point, if we think it won't be problematic. The reason Draco Meteor on Hydreigon is a concern specifically comes from the following factors: It is already a dominant offensive threat, between its strong coverage options, high offenses, & other tertiary options that make it more difficult to deal with, such as Taunt or Roost. Draco Meteor specifically is strong enough to turn KOs that Hydreigon previously could not get into guaranteed/probable 2HKOs, making the list of more "reliable" answers to Hydreigon very small. The addition of the newly functioning moves/abilities/items aren't really expected to impede Hydreigon's viability significantly, so no significantly good tools for dealing with Hydreigon are expected to show up with the update. The pokemon that would best be able to check & suppress it would be powerful, faster offensive threats that would heavily punish Hydreigon users on a revenge kill. This would include pokemon such as Garchomp, Terrakion, Keldeo, Latis, etc.; However, for various reasons, adding these pokemon is not an immediate option. Either because they themselves would likely end up being just as problematic & banworthy if not moreso than Hydreigon, because they're Legendary pokemon slated for implementation in Legendary dungeons which cannot just be done as a throwaway addition, or in most cases, both. With that in mind, we would still like feedback on this matter. When participating in the discussion, keep in mind & attempt to answer these questions: Is it likely Hydreigon with Draco Meteor would end up being obviously banworthy after the update? If not, what new options would be able to reliably deal with or pressure it? If it is likely banworthy, are there practical, alternative solutions for mitigating Hydreigon's impact on the metagame other than removing Draco Meteor from it's movepool? If neither of these have good answers, at what point would you consider adding Draco Meteor to Hydreigon to be reasonable? Discuss.
  9. Senile

    UU Tier Discussion Request Thread

    Yes, I am aware of how speed boost works, both normally & in PokeMMO. No, it being better than it normally is in the games is not automatically grounds for banning it. A lot of things aren't implemented 100% correctly in MMO, and that can include implementing things in a way that makes them better than they should be (see: Rage Powder), but that isn't automatically grounds for banning it. They have to be problematic in order to actually deserve a ban. Yes, this bug makes it so that there are less things that can come in and answer a Speed Boost Yanmega offensively. With that being said, Yanmega isn't running over UU right now, so obviously, having less checks isn't making Yanmega an insane god level threat. If Yanmega isn't problematic even with this bug, it's clear that it still has enough answers to be reasonable, even with less answers available. Until the bug is fixed, if you consider Yanmega to be a problem, you should use some of the alternative answers.
  10. Senile

    UU Tier Discussion Request Thread

    It might make Yanmega better than normal, but even with this, Yanmega isn't doing enough in UU to be super problematic anyway, so a ban's not warranted. It's also worth mentioning that AFAIK this bug has been around since Speed Boost was implemented, so it's probably just something we're gonna have to live with until they get around to it.
  11. are we just going to ignore how hilariously wrong this is? No, hidden abilities did not exist in gen 1 & 2. And I can see this with certainty, because, you know, no abilities existed in gen 1 and 2, abilities were added in gen 3. More importantly, actual hidden abilities weren't added until Gen 5, the generation PokeMMO is currently on. In gen 5, Hidden Abilities were not all released at once. In fact, similar to the plan for dungeons releasing them in PokeMMO, hidden abilities in gen 5 were essentially drip-fed to players over time. Some Hidden Abilities were straight up never released in gen 5, only being released later, or in some cases (Shadow Tag Chandelure), having their HA changed in gen 6+ after never being released in gen 5. A lot of your arguments seem to hinge on an appeal to "Well, HA's were always a thing, so they should be in the game", but that's just obviously not true at all.
  12. Senile

    The Case for Level Caps

    You do know pokemon in the cartridge games only disobeyed you if they didn't originate from your game and were instead traded in, right?
  13. Senile

    The monumental failure of clubs

    Okay, let's analyze this; Let's look at what's wrong with Clubs as they are now, and what these updates will do to change things. To do this, I'm going to give you the perspective of how I (and probably more than a few other people) used Round Table, and how this translates to how unusable Clubs are for this. So, previously, with round table, it'd go like this: See new posts in the Round Table subforum Click on the subforum, glance over at what team threads have new activity. If I care about any of those teams, I click to see the newest posts. Appreciate whatever drama/bantz/shitposts are in the thread, and maybe participate Pretty straightforward. Now, let's see the process as of right now: Decide, out of my own volition, to click Clubs for some reason, since there's no clear indicator of new posts. I could follow the forum threads, but understandably, I don't want to get a notification literally any time anyone posts in any of the several team threads I might be interested in viewing. Yes, there's "Recent Activity", but it doesn't go very far; All it takes is like 5 posts in 1 thread in quick succession and I don't know the status of the team threads in any other clubs. I'm in clubs, now what? Well, if I want to look at the team thread of a club I decided to join, thankfully, there's a "My Clubs" area to easily find them. If it's a club I'm not in & don't want to join for any particular reason, I have to go find it. I click whatever Club I want to look at, ending up at the home page, which is basically worthless. I guess I can glance it to determine if there's any new content in the team thread, but I can't really look down the timeline to read the thread, so it's not really useful for much else. I go to the forum topics. I click on the team thread and look at the posts. If I want to look at any other team thread, instead of going back up to the RT subforum and clicking another thread, I have to go back to the Club section and go through steps 2-5 again, which is way more of a hassle, especially since I have to effectively check every single relevant club section to even know if there's new content worth checking for. This is especially bad since this negative feedback loop has resulted in the team threads I care about being basically dead, so it's not even worth clicking on the club section anymore to see if anything's new, or post new content myself. So, what's the problem here, exactly? The problem is 2 major problems: One, there's an entire 2 extra steps, of clicking on the club, and then clicking on their subforum to get to the team thread. The second major problem is that the team threads are no longer aggregated in 1 page, but separated into their own clubs, meaning that these 2 extra steps become a shit ton of extra steps if you're trying to look at more than 1 team thread, and it's especially problematic because unlike before, it's not obvious what team threads have new content worth viewing. Okay, so now that we've established this, let's see what the new features do to fix this: "Club Content throughout the community": From what I can tell, this allows you to easily aggregate the subforums of individual clubs, putting them together and letting you visit them. This effectively cuts out 1 of the 2 extra steps, because you don't need to look at the garbage home page! And it even seems to tell you when new posts are here, like in the old round table, so it's kind of like how it was before? It's definitely more convenient than now. But it still has the obnoxious caveat that you have to be in the club to see the subforums here, which is especially obnoxious if teams decide to switch to "Read Only" so that non-team members can still view the content, but make it so only team members can actually join the club, as "Read Only" clubs, as far as I can tell, won't show up here. Really, this update does make Clubs way more usable, even though there's still an extra unnecessary step involved. With that being said, I'm still not actually convinced it'll completely solve the issue; Read Only clubs are an attractive setting option for people who want their club content to be looked at, but don't want randos posting in their team threads. Unfortunately, this also means that if people start using it, pretty much everything that makes Clubs more usable in the update is basically irrelevant for any clubs you aren't invited to. Yeah yeah yeah, "then maybe they shouldn't make their clubs Read Only and live in Public mode forever" jajaja I get it, but it's still a problem. I'd also still rather not join the club of random teams I'm not actually in just so I can actually look at their team threads in an even slightly convenient way, but I doubt a solution to this is ever going to exist. TL;DR: 4.3 makes any Clubs you are in infinitely more usable/readable. Read Only is a great feature for team clubs hypothetically, but since it precludes the part of the update that makes clubs actually usable for looking at the team threads, I don't think it's actually helpful. Being forced to join clubs of teams you aren't in just to be able to look at their team thread without going through a summoning ritual is still ass. There's still an entire extra step even with the improvements that wasn't there before even in a perfect world, and that sucks, but idk that's life I guess. Clubs you haven't joined are still basically unusable for regular team thread shitposting purposes, so you're gonna have to join every even remotely interesting looking club.
  14. Senile

    Can you buff competitive prizes?

    I don't understand why you felt this was appropriate? It wasn't really an attack on Kizhaz, but an attack on the incredulity of the statement, because the comment legitimately makes no sense. I don't know how to tell you this, but you're making a game for the players. If the players don't feel something is worthwhile, then there's a reason they do so. This isn't an uncommon sentiment either, so the idea that players would just "lower their expectations", especially considering this system has been around for quite a while, is completely absurd. The fact of the matter is, regardless of whether it is worthwhile or not from your perspective, if the players don't feel it's worthwhile, it really doesn't matter. You could sit here all day and lecture people about how worthwhile and well balanced prizes are right now from your perspective as a designer, but if the players don't feel that way and the game is suffering because of it, then obviously you need to reevaluate something in the system.
  15. Senile

    new mayor of pokemmo BESTFRIENDS

    Listen, I know you're new around here, and don't understand the finer points of the delicate political and societal ecosystem of the PokeMMOTM landscape, but I will not sit here quietly and take this blatant disrespect of the most esteemed PokeMMO political office. First of all, Bestfriends is a long time and beloved member of the community, providing quality of content for dedicated PokeMMOTM players, such as coverage on ingame playthroughs, and even brief discussions of pokemon outside of story, looking at notable pokemon like Hercalacross and Sailamence. Sure, it's his first time in office, and he hasn't done a significant amount, but he had to take time to hand select his cabinet, a strenuous and time consuming task. To say he hasn't done anything and deserves no such title, despite his past contributions and the fact he won the election is blatant slander. Quite frankly, it's nothing less than political mudslinging of the lowest degree. He hasn't demanded any sort of respect from any authority, not that he needs to. You said it yourself; You don't even understand what the mayorship placement entails, and yet you're outright flaming and aggrieving this man for doing his best in his elected position. Speaking of demanding respect, you made time to advertise your own thread, with your own VERY IMPORTANTTM DONUT STEEL Super Survey That Will Stay On Everyone's Permanent Records as a completely shoehorned addition to your post. It isn't enough to outright insult our mayor, but you also have to advertise your own content? Well, I guess all that matters is you've found a way to feel superior to everyone involved in the election and everyone who posts on the forums at the same time, so you've got that going for you. Yes, the first post of the thread is garbage. Unfortunately, after the complete and utter collapse of the original Mayoral Regime after the devastating Riga.exe bombings of February, the original systems in place for this system were destroyed, and Fred was the only person who could run the election. Yes, it wasn't professional, and yes, it made the position seem like a joke, but to anyone experienced in the community, lengthy prose about it's importance isn't necessary; it's understood implicitly. Ultimately, the person going around the forums actively aggrieving people and spamming links to their thread is not our Divine Emperor, Mayor, and Supreme Authority of All Things Above Bestfriends, it's you. And if you can't even manage some Poke-Respect for our mayor, then I don't know how you can expect to receive and Poke-Respect yourself. From my perspective, the troll here isn't Bestfriends, it's you. Additionally, just to explain some of the roles of the mayor and the benefits it provides to the community, since you professed to not understanding it, allow me to list them: The mayor maintains order, acting as a speaking point and representative of multiple facets of the PokeMMO community. They assist new players, educating them and introducing them to larger groups of the community to become involved. They maintain a constant thumb on the pulse of the playerbase, listening for discontent and attempting to resolve problems. They are literally granted divine powers and hold a great sway on the growth of our crops, ensuring we survive the winter. Quite frankly, you should do more research before posting.
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