suigin

I even updated it a bit Image back up

He wants to know meta builds, not what each thing does. It'd be nice to be able to see which moves are most common in pokemon in the tab that shows their usage and such.

Still waiting for this Tier Council member, arguably the biggest thinker outside of the box in TC history, the Vindicator of CB Venomoth, to provide me with the multiple ways to work around Cursed Body procs without giving away a large window of opportunity for your opponent to set up freely. Surely he didn't emptily claim a thing and then leave the thread hoping his title alone would carry the weight of his words, right?

Still waiting, surely a tier council member, hand picked from the finest candidates by Munya himself, who boldly proclaims something like this can back up his claims.

My last post got deleted, probably because it wasn't the nicest of posts but DO NOT RESPOND to this guy until he addresses all the arguments against his takes that he conveniently ignored in the last thread he ruined by repeating everything ad nauseam. This guy bloated the last thread to the point of unreadability and will do the same to this thread if you pay him attention.

Provide 3 ways to do so. For flinchers: Outspeed them using your speed stat, Have abilities that ignore flinch, use priority to hit them. Now tell me 3 ways a direct attack can outplay a Cursed Body proc without giving away a ton of momentum. Can you elaborate on why it is valid? Why shouldn't fixed evasion be removed altogether?

Personally I came back to MMO for a bit last month and if I'm being honest OU feels terrible to play. Most of the time it feels like you're matchup fishing no matter what you build, not only is hyper offense completely hopeless in this meta with stuff like rain or conk existing but now even normal offense has to deal with a thick layer of RNG product of dev meddling which makes it simply not fun to play against. I've been very vocal about Cursed Body lately, and if I'm being honest Sand Veil is just as bad. An offensive team of mine is pretty damn solid with Tyranitar in it, however the Garchomp matchup becomes a complete coin toss because of Sand Veil, I do have stuff that can oneshot chomp however most of the time if sand is active I have to find myself making either crazy reads to stall out sand so I can land an Ice Beam proper or else I'll likely take big losses just dictated by RNG, this pretty much discourages me from using Tyranitar who, again, is usually a perfect fit for my teams in order to use something worse just because luck may not be on my side, that or just dropping offense altogether. Gengar is another case, it's really fast, hits hard and has always been a fairly annoying matchup for offense, the best way to deal with it is usually a Scarfer or CB Scizor, if you do manage to hit it, you'll have a chance of triggering Cursed Body and after killing it, your opponent has complete momentum and freedom to set up a powerful win condition that maybe they wouldn't be able to do were their opponents not locked into using Struggle. Hell even when you set up for a sweep yourself and say, your STAB being spammed wins the game, hitting a Gengar at the wrong time with it may make you lose the game altogether since you could be forced out by something else that can set up, likely twice, on you and turn everything around. It's not just offensive play that gets stomped by Cursed Body though, I've had admittedly rough matchups using stall where I cannot do anything about Gengar, due to my low offensive power and limited options to take a hit and retaliate Gengar usually requires more than one hit to be taken down, usually from my Blissey or maybe a Mandibuzz or whatever, but if I get Cursed Body'd on one of these usually mono attackers, it's all over, that Gengar has objectively single handedly won the match as it can set up a second time and nuke everything unless it gets incredibly unlucky with Focus Blast. Stall has a bit more leeway on the Garchomp issue since Chomp has a harder time breaking past stuff now, but say you wanna use Hippowdon with something like Ice Fang or Whirlwind to phase it out since normally Hippowdon is a perfect fit for your team, then you're accidentally adding another layer of RNG to the match even if you don't desire it.

thanks bulbapedia

just use swift

it adds a layer of frustration but it changes nothing in the end

how

and it was the best decision ever done

I think it's because since it no longer breaks NU and it's not a staple in higher tiers it may be ok to buff it since the higher ups want the game to "be as close to the original games" as possible. Same deal as the stupid Curse Body thing with Gengar, the devs want to keep mons as close to their Sword and Shield iterations as possible without them being broken for our meta.

IIRC back when Senile was around we had proposed a system or something where the players would have more of an input when it came to bans and such. The thread it was suggested in probably still sits unresponded to in the TC forum.

I think he means stuff like Body Press and such.

Usage matters, it just shouldn't be the only metric by which something is judged. Saying usage doesn't matter is done only to swiftly shut some idiot up who wants something like Landorus-Therian banned solely on the basis of their usage because of how splashable it is. Something like a powerful sweeper such as Lucario should not be as splashable as it is in UU.

This is asusming of course that Alomomola is running 252 hp and defense and Lucario is +speed nature. Granted Alomomola doesn't really invest in hp due to its naturally high hp stat and need to invest in defenses to have effective bulk so a lot of it would normally go into spdef, but let's assume for the sake of argument that Alomomola would go max HP and Max def, that leaves it completely open to special Lucario. Hell I'll even calculate a magical Alomomola with Max everything Well sure, it can live, barely if not chipped, now let's see what it can retaliate with? Oh...so only a 30% chance of hopefully burning it. Not very different here. Also Can only really counter the physical set. Oh wait you said Driflim would revenge kill, rather than wall so you absolutely need to pray somehow pop a berry at half health. But let's assume your miracle scenario happens, you switched in, rocks put you at half health, you ate your Sitrus you're now faster than the opposing Lucario. Let's go, we can finally retaliate. You're only killing it if it max rolls and Life Orb recoil kills it. Edit: I had originally calced -defense because I was moving quickly between calcing special and physical sets and how it'd fare vs special attackers sorry, in reality Drif doesn't kill at all. Have an extra cool calc in case this incredibly unreliable Drifblim becomes a common Lucario check for whatever reason To kill more stuff.

Name 3

POV: You are absolutely forced to switch out in front of the opposing Lucario who just switched in. You don't know its set, what do you do?

Rather than things becoming broken it's closer to a meta shake up of the highest magnitude across all tiers which would seldom have any recovery from. For starters sure, Volcarona is the obvious suspect, but so are any set up sweepers who are weak to rocks, Gyarados, Togekiss and need I remind you of our eventual Multiscale Dragonite (Who may be coupled with a buffed Outrage if the promise of buffing Outrage once HAs and legendaries are out is still up). Coupled with this defensive playstyles would be buffed enormously. Lack of hazards mean stuff like Mandibuzz, Rotom or an eventual Zapdos would have absolute control of hazards cleaning them up for defensive stuff that isn't running the item without any penalties. Things like Blissey wouldn't be chipped by them making it harder to put in range for KOs, an eventual Regenerator Slowbro wouldn't be affected by Toxic Spikes, etc. Coupled with this Knock Off is not that common due to understandable reasons so getting rid of opposing boots would be an ordeal. Hazards are in a good spot, I'd say they are even in a slightly weak spot with Defog being so safe and prevalent and they are only gonna get weaker as we gain access to stuff like Magic Bounce, Zapdos, or the Latis. So yeah I don't really see Heavy Duty Boots improving our meta, I can only see it devolving into a stallfest the likes of which the devs have disapproved of before, either that or a duel between offenses that is decided pretty much by matchup and who sets up first (Which in turn would promote stall since you know, why go for the coin toss when you can just wall everything).

Hazard control is already strong enough.

Ok I'm talking about OU though, different tier, different mons, set up options are different. 10% rate at best, 1 type immune to it, there's several moves that allow instant thawing out, including the infamous Scald. 2 Pokemon types immune to them at minimum (Ground types for Discharge, Ghost for Body Slam). Misses are on the user for picking said move to use, they are not imposed on by the opponent unless there's an evasion raise involved (The only ones allowed are Snow Cloak and Sand Veil which should also be removed). Smaller chance of them happening, attached to all moves. What an asinine comparison. They both more or less do the same stuff except they now add an extra layer of rng that can greatly change the game on a whim of the RNG seed. If Jellicent lost so much teambuilding effectiveness then why did it both rise a tier and have people willingly use Cursed Body on it? Flame body and Static require contact. Mono attackers also suffer from this. Cursed Body affects everything, you 100% have to attack a Pokemon to defeat it. Sure depending on the matchup you can maybe toxic a Jellicent and stall it to death but not everything has the luxury of doing so. Don't post then. Specially if your post is bad. If you wanna focus on Duggy then all power to you, make another post complaining about it, don't sidetrack another discussion with your dogshit comparisons.

The absolute fucking state of the balancing in this game.

Gonna bring up a bit of the Madara post back, regarding Cursed Body. It's not even a complaint solely about Gengar like you seemingly assumed, I've seen people forsake Water Absorb on Jellicent just to use Cursed Body in order to fish for disables in order to set up later with something else. Choice users have a 30% chance of becoming set up bait or just being forced to struggle. Set up Pokemon that may have a win assured due to the win conditions being met may be blocked by Cursed Body blocking an essential move in order to continue the sweep essentially forcing a momentum dump that can swing the entire match around. Gengar may be the most annoying abuser due to it already being a fairly annoying Pokemon to deal with alongside also having gained its own set up move but it's definitely not limited to it alone.

jotoh????