suigin

Mate the combination of Dugtrio+Porygon Z isn't that strong in OU

Give Dugtrio Swords Dance so it gets quickbanned ez

Hurricane Mence with rain is pretty fun, slap either specs or scarf on it and fire off Hurricanes or Draco Meteors at will. As for partners you'll definitely want stuff that pressures or removes Chansey and Blissey. Ferrothorn can switch into them and set up hazards that will make it far more difficult for them to switch back in.

Different contexts, in one tier it may ease up a sweep for something much harder to check/counter.

Historically Dugtrio is a pokemon that is pretty mediocre until it finds a combination/team where it severely limits the counterplay options against it. It takes a while for it to be found but usually it happens no matter what, it's not a matter of if it would happen but of when it will happen. That also doesn't reflect much in usage, specially at first.

The actual truth is someone in the dev team more or less after the Platinum release decided that MMO should follow the main games more closely in terms of mechanics, bans, etc. Not when it comes to the economy or shinies though, that'd be fun and convenient, this ruling only affects the competitive side, and this call supercedes everything the TC tries to do. They recently had a TC member who is also an amazing player outright quit the spot with an angry rant because of the lack of influence he had among other things, all because people who have never played competitive get the final word. And people who don't play competitive don't get to be frustrated by RNG, you can watch all you want and say "haha that miss sucked" but it isn't until you play yourself and see half your games dictated by either your or their Cursed Body that you start to understand that maybe there's a problem. Whoever this dev is (or maybe someone in the higher end of the mod team) needs to swallow their pride and retract this shitty call. Gamefreak cannot balance for shit, this game had rulings that were even ahead of Smogon's in some cases such as Baton Pass or Dugtrio and now we're far behind playing an RNG fest while having no blanket checks against it. They'll never show their face though or justify their shitty decision though, they'll just sit back and relax while the Yuan rain.

It makes offensive counterplay to it a lot better. Let's say your best way to beat a Garchomp using an offensive team is something faster using an ice move, you may not have that many pokemon meeting those characteristics in your team all at once, therefore if the chomp dodges said ice move from said move then options for dealing with it are a lot more limited. It's something that forces people to use defensive checks completely ruining an entire playstyle (We have a lot of other things like that, IE Conk, Kingdra) but this one is purely RNG based.

Because they don't have to put effort into them anymore.

Now for my biased opinion. It's probably for the best not to apply any of this, it'd be a shift comparable to MMO's gen3>gen5 shift but towards a defensive playstyle comparable to late gen3's Chansey meta relying on very very very slow chipping due to lack of hazards. Coupled with this lack of hazards, the lower BP on moves makes it a lot harder for all wallbreakers to get rid of bulky stuff, lots of wallbreakers would become outright unviable as such unable to get 2HKOs against stuff they normally would after one or two rounds of hazards. Now not every offensive threat is a loser, stuff like Volcarona would be super common, albeit due to the nature of how metas tend to shift whenever there's a super oppressive offensive threat, people would likely play it safe and once again gravitate towards fat stuff that can safely switch into it no matter what and force it out. The lack of hazards also free up a lot of moveslots for teams like these who rely heavily on hazard control and to boot a LOT of comps would lose value, from wallbreakers, sweepers, pokemon both offensive and defensive dedicated to hazard control, suicide leads, etc. Like Zymo said I'm ok with the new learnpools, stuff like Close Combat Scizor is pretty exciting, but the changes to the moves themselves are legit awful and probably only make sense in Arceus Legends.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1u218EO04LgZG5IJdk-Y9rAVYWjUPWPXKwDXGllyX_Tg/htmlview?usp=drivesdk&pru=AAABfp2zvH4*Akse0zfdyZ01qWxVqwUmRA These are pretty wild, will they be applied despite the differences in playstyle from the normal mainline games? I can see a dramatic shift towards a more defensive playstyle if so. Stealth Rock and Spikes now work like Whirlpool and Fire Spin except you can switch out too.

It was convenient and saved time so it had to be changed.

But if you play against someone who can smell that you're Vacuum Wave, let's say in a tournament final, and the guy Ice Shards and you get flinched (Much like in the screenshot, the "physical" piece of proof being shown to you in Heichi's post) then you lose, there's no counterplay, you just repeat "get lucky" while telling people about your 100 elo exploits using Specs Nasty Plot Gengar and then complaining about Chansey of all fucking things. You ignore people's arguments when they destroy you and cyclically repeat your bullshit in every thread with the confidence of Internet Explorer asking you to become the default browser for your PC, the mods do nothing about your blatant spam which includes double posting walls of insane ESL babble and causing people to respond to you with the same arguments they used before, bloating the thread again, lest it looks like you had the final word in this argument making you the winner. You have never won a tournament, you have never topped a ladder, the time matchmaking put you against someone in top 45 (Top 45 for fucks sake, not even in the top 10) of the ladder you gave up 5 turns in and started complaining about his Blissey and stall despite him using a balance team. Your arguments have been slammed into the ground by players a billion times better than you, 50 Elo doesn't affect the people who are dedicated about being good at the game. Stop posting.

We have told you repeatedly stall has plenty of counterplay besides hax, check this thread for wallbreakers and stallbreakers. Togekiss is not the same since it's a much slower Pokemon even at +1 with a scarf, you cannot compare its speed to a +2 Cloyster. Maybe get out of 200 elo and stop using Ambipom in OU before you post.

You're absolutely right but the devs want the game to be unfair, sorry bro.

It's not even stall, his poor opponent probably wanted to run offense without getting smashed by rain and Conkeldurr so he had to use Cofa/Blissey. The fact that he apparently cannot break past those mons with his own (A Hydreigon, a Gengar, an Infernape and a Garchomp) is telling. I disagree with OP, he has to be dragged out of 300 elo and matched with better players so he stops citing Chanseys switching into his Gengar to Toxic it or staying on Infernape in threads trying to have serious discussions.

Since this bot continues to cyclically post the same dogshit every time, I'll just repost the same replies that crushed him every time until he stops ignoring them. RNG takes autonomy away, toxic stall doesn't. You haven't won a measly tournament nor topped a ladder.

There have been multiple threads about it with overwhelming support from many people and the devs just think "No! Let's keep this shitty" It's not even like some meme battle facility relies too much on the """""RNG""""" triggering to generate "difficulty in pve". It's simply them just wanting PVP to be shitty and luck based for the sake of it. I can't even buy the "Let's stay as close as possible to the original games" excuse since that ship has long since sailed and is conveniently ignored the moment the economy is affected.

So this is why you think Cloyster absolutely needs Kings Rock for people to break past walls.

This and Cursed Body outright keep me from playing OU.

That's how it was for a while and it was perfect.

I want to see them voice their opinions here, I wanna know whether we, the normal players, are against the devs all alone or if they also think certain things here are broken, uncompetitive and unfun to play against. I've been in the other side and I know damn well that at some point you just give up trying to reason with them, but at the same time dissent in the TC itself might make them think "oh it's ok for this to be like this, only a bunch of them hate it".

Would be interested in hearing opinions from other actual TC members regarding this issue.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4randombattle-1471009742 have you guys ever had 2 shitbugs and a delibird in the same team? last was sub punch breloom

I pretty much put the stuff mkns had put guiding myself by the numbers of the filenames of the pngs in the op. I think I accidentally deleted a few things but the Haze thing matches the OP. It wouldn't surprise me if a lot was outdated since this was last updated in 2019, Bisharp wasn't even allowed in UU back then, let alone Mamoswine, Zoroark hadn't been released, etc, Stunfisk was probably more viable back then. I'd rather mkns copied my post and put it in place of the OP and then managed compendium himself, I'm nowhere near familiar with the tier to manage something like this. When pasting images plenty of times I second guessed myself asking myself is certain things were truly viable or not but I tried to be as accurate as possible.