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gbwead

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  1. My rant about UU: Over the past 9 months, UU has changed dramatically. Right when P2 was starting to be suspected as a potential defensive uber mon, UU lost Jellicent, gained Swampert/Gastrodon and TC decided the metagame was stable enough to test out PZ. So at that time, TC decided P2 was fine in UU. P-Z completly destroyed the fragile UU tier and players had to look to NU to find answers: Gigalith, Mismagius and Spiritomb. This could be indicative of how unhealthy PZ has been since people were forced to integrate in their team mons that were previously not viable. Perhaps, these mons were underated and PZ incentivize people to reveal their potential, but I seriously doubt that's the case. Then, Metagross/Heracross moved up to OU and TC decided the metagame (that had been destroyed by PZ) was once again stable enough to test out Lucario. So once again, TC decided Porygon2 was completly fine in UU. Based on what I have read in the Lucario thread, TC is considering banning P2 before banning Lucario and PZ. This is imo outrageous. If P2 was fine in UU when it was decided that PZ and Lucario should be tested, why is that no longer the case? P2 was an indredible wall that could switch on many things and on which it was insanely difficult to switch in. That was the case 9 months ago, that was the case when P-Z was introduced in UU, that was the case when Lucario was introduced in UU and that is still the case today. If P2 gets banned now, TC would pretty much invalidate their reasoning for testing PZ and Lucario in the first place. So basically, if TC wants to ban P2, they imo need to ban Lucario and PZ first.
  2. If that's the reason, then it's a pretty terrible one since like you mentionned there are way better set up options for Lucario, on which Lucario can even afford switching into (not the case with P2).
  3. Why is that? Is it because P2 is providing Teleport support to Lucario? Or is it for another reason?
  4. This is the best possible outcome for UU imo. Getting rid of only one of them will not be that useful. We have seen what UU looks like with P2 only. We have seen what UU looks like with P2 + PZ. And now we have seen what UU looks like with P2 + PZ + Lucario. There are multiple combinations we haven't tried yet (PZ only) (Lucario only) (PZ + Lucario) (P2 + Lucario) and I pray we don't have to go through each combination before having to inevitably ban all three of mons.
  5. I think you are right; uncompetitiveness is kind of a made up word, so another way to say that is probably better. After following the tiering discussions on the forum for a few years, I came to the realisation that pokemon never get banned as uncompetitive. If they are too strong, they are banned as Uber. If they have a undesirable or negative effect on a metagame, they are banned as unhealthy. However, they are never banned as uncompetitive. Historically, the tiering actions under the uncompetitive umbrella usually have to do with abilities, moves and items (sleep clause, evasion clause, trapping abilities, hax items, etc.) That's the reason why I seperated Uncompetitive from the two other categories (Uber and Unhealthy). However, this is only an assumption of mine. We never had a pokemon banned as defensive uber or support uber in PokeMMO, but that doesn't mean the sub category should be removed. Perhaps, we will one day have a pokemon banned as uncompetitive and the category should remain an option for pokemon's bans and not just for abilities, moves and items. Thanks for looking at what I wrote.
  6. Is it possible to get an answer regarding this? 3 and 4 are about the uncompetitive category and uncompetitive is not a sub category of unhealthy. Anyhow, we don't have to discuss what I wrote 1 year ago, I posted it just to show what I would have prefered.
  7. I understand this thread purpose is to give a reference point for tiering discussions, but will it be used by TC in an official manner? If a pokemon gets banned, will the ban announcement clearly state what the pokemon is banned for (uber/uncompetitive/unhealthy)? I don't think U-Turn/Volt Switch should be mentionned at all when talking about degree of uncompetitiveness. These moves are quite straight forward and I do not see how they remove autonomy from players. The entire section about Traping Abilities should be removed imo. Explaning why Wobbuffet and Dugtrio are banned doesn't make much sense in 2021 because they are not banned. It would probably be better to use more recent examples for each ban category. Tyranitar (Offensive Uber), Lugia (Defensive Uber) and Wobbuffet (Support Uber), the reasoning for these bans are quite outdated. Garchomp SD and Hydreigon Draco Meteor would be more relevant examples for Offensive Uber for instance. P2 could also be considered here as a good example for Defensive Uber. This will most likely sound very conceited, but I prefer the updated tiering etiquette I had made in the TC section about a year ago: Obviously, you guys are free to use w.e tiering definitions you deem more appropriate, but I was kind of hoping for something less entangled with outdated examples and more straight to the point.
  8. Because whether you look at the tiering policy or the OP of this thread, this suspect test could last from 1, 2 or 3 months. So banning Lucario at the end of the month is just a regular ban really.
  9. I do not think there is any public data on this, but it should not really matter since we are talking about a very tiny portion of duels out of the thousands being played each month. It's also not surprising that someone would see a future opponent abusing Lucario and then overpreparing for that specific threat compromising its entire teambuild in the process. There is nothing good about this. Lucario is immune to poison. Burn works only for physical Lucario. Paralysis speed reduction doesn't prevent Lucario from using priority moves. Tbh, Lucario is not really vulnerable to status moves compared to other mons. The base stat increase might make Dugtrio more viable in UU, but it doesn't change much regarding Lucario. Dugtrio vs Lucario is not a great match up since Dugtrio is threathen heavily by Lucario's priority moves. If Dugtrio is Sash, it still might lose if Lucario is holding a Sash as well. I think this probably needs clarification because right now it looks like you blatantly forced Lucario to drop in order to abuse a broken mon. Also, Azumarill is not broken. It was not broken in NU and is certainly not broken in UU either. I have my guess on who is feeding you this bs and you really need to stop listening to them because it's ridiculous. Ok, I think this is part of the problem. I didn't do the math, but there is such a huge portion of the tier that can't afford staying in front of an unboosted Close Combat and even less that can afford switching into one. It's wrong to think Lucario has to set up. It can do so much without setting up and the fear of a potential set up can be enough to make sure stuff that get OHKO by Lucario stay in order to chip it on the set up potential set up turn. It's not a quick ban if you guys decide to ban Lucario at the end of the month, that's just a regular monthly ban. edit: Oh I almost forgot, you still did not give me an example of Lucario being crippled by UU trick users.
  10. This is extremely interesting and fascinating. I would like to add to this by pointing out that Metagross is the only pseudo-legendary: with red eyes (iris) that needs to stay on 4 legs to keep its balance without a tail without a mouth with a name starting with the letter M
  11. There has been two tournaments this weekend. Did TC get any closer to getting the answers they were looking for when they decided to initiate this susepct test? If so, please share...
  12. @Umbramol, why have you been spamming Hitmonchan when you could have been playing Hitmontop this entire time? smh
  13. I think something like that would be more simple.
  14. I would like to contribute to this discussion thread by commenting on the opening post of the thread which I believe has many misleading/wrong statements. Aside from some gimmicky surprise factor, I don't see why anyone would run Choice Scarf on Lucario. This statement looks like a premature assumption that turned out of to be wrong and should probably have been left out. Choice Scarf Lucario is seemingly below 2.37% usage and is therefore not meta relevant and should probably not be part of this discussion. Do you have calcs to support this? Brave Bird might do a lot of dmg, but it's not really close to a OHKO. The recoil dmg is also pretty bad since it only helps Lucario breaks through Crobat. Also, if a physically defensive Crobat doesn't run Haze, it will lose to a special Lucario while a specially defensive Crobat should also lose to a physical Lucario. So as solid as Crobat may be, it is nothing more than a gamble when you throw it at Lucario. I'm not saying that this is not true, but why the affirmation before the test. How can you be so sure Lucario relies on Focus Sash to accomplish anything? Clearly, usage shows that Life Orb is by far the most popular item and that allows Lucario to have very high usage and win rate. Once again, I don't know why there is an affirmation here before the test. How do you know Lucario will fail to have the power to reliably break many walls before seeing it in action? Also, I do not see how Lucario is vulnerable to Trick users. Trick users are mainly used to screw with walls making them pretty much useless. What Trick user are you thinking about when saying this? You realise Lucario can be played Special and has Inner Focus as an ability, right? How is Hitmontop a good idea vs Lucario with that in mind? Lucario has access to 5 priority moves. Extreme Speed, Quick Attack, Feint, Vacuum Wave and Bullet Punch. Considering Quick Attack and Feint are just shitty versions of Extreme Speed, Lucario has really only 3 relevant priority mvoes: ESpeed, Bullet Punch and Vacuum. Durant resists 2 out of the 3 priority moves seen on Lucario. Since Special Lucario is more popular than other Physical Lucario, Durant "resisting all priority moves, except Vacuum Wave" seems like a good way to over hype a bad answer. Let's not forget that Durant as an answer to physical Lucario still has to deal with a shitty 80% accuracy and is forced to run Superpower which a lot of people have dropped in past months in order to deal better with Rotom-H. So overall, Durant is just not great vs Lucario.
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