TheRealPhatiman

I did say it would seem like a solid check,didnt say it outright was(I'm bad,I apologize)...also with cleric support it does have rest to fall back on but thats not considered a reliable recovery move.. very good points on your part.

such feels seeing my ot do something good for a change also,I'd like to raise platoons bid on that sexy vape and offer 100k

[spoiler]Jolly banded 252 Atk Choice Band Rhydon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 96-114 (48.7 - 57.8%) -- 50.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 252 Atk Choice Band Rhydon Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 36-42 (18.2 - 21.3%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery 252 Atk Choice Band Rhydon Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 38-45 (19.2 - 22.8%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery 252 Atk Choice Band Rhydon Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 77-91 (39 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery Adamant banded 252+ Atk Choice Band Rhydon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 105-124 (53.2 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 252+ Atk Choice Band Rhydon Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 39-47 (19.7 - 23.8%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery 252+ Atk Choice Band Rhydon Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 42-50 (21.3 - 25.3%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery 252+ Atk Choice Band Rhydon Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 85-100 (43.1 - 50.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery Adamant swords 252+ Atk Rhydon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 70-84 (35.5 - 42.6%) -- 91.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 252+ Atk Rhydon Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 26-31 (13.1 - 15.7%) -- possibly the worst move ever 252+ Atk Rhydon Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 28-33 (14.2 - 16.7%) -- possible 9HKO after Leftovers recovery 252+ Atk Rhydon Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 56-67 (28.4 - 34%) -- 98.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery Jolly swords 252 Atk Rhydon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 64-76 (32.4 - 38.5%) -- 3.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 252 Atk Rhydon Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 24-29 (12.1 - 14.7%) -- possibly the worst move ever 252 Atk Rhydon Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 25-30 (12.6 - 15.2%) -- possibly the worst move ever 252 Atk Rhydon Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 51-61 (25.8 - 30.9%) -- 6.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery 0- SpA Poliwrath Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rhydon: 268-324 (148.8 - 180%) -- guaranteed OHKO with encore it shuts set up sets down,also completely messes with crawdunt.. would seem like a solid check on paper [/spoiler]

such lies toasty,how can your ride on make such love to my tooshy and just forget it ever happened?i certainly didnt.the memory is still fresh and livid in my mind..one double bluff too far and he was primed and readeh,the absolute rekkage he unleashed on me has given me my first of many sleepless nights.. on a serious note though,it was only a bad play on my part that actually gave you a chance to set up,otherwise he just seemed like dead weight most of the time.I gave rhy a try too in a few duels and honestly he just has so few situations that allow the setup(or even a safe switch in) that it ended up being nothing more than a defensive pivot(and a mediocre one at that)I think perhaps with the right support it'd be easier but even then his chance of a successful setup is minimal..its like craig pointed out,hes very similiar to maro currently,if youre dumb/careless enough to allow the setup im of the belief that you deserved to get swept.BUT Id like to see it in action in a proper setting to see his true mettle before i decide if its more cancer than cure.. [spoiler]his set ups require a paramount level of prediction and scouting(or ignorance on the opponents part)high risk,high reward.[/spoiler]

thank you londar mate,its exactly why i mentioned at the end of the post that I'm here to learn,I know i suck at it but if I dont work towards it I'l never get better at it.. its not an rng focused set by any means,focus energy and scope lens = a 100% crit rate.I shall concede and admit that I made a terrible example of it..I thought i had thought it through thouroughly but in light of londars correction on my means of calcing Il admit that my argument regarding kingdra becomes null and void.I will however stand by the fact that as a support pokemon gengar indeed does fill the uber characteristics in how it can consistently provide situations where other pokemon sweep substantially easier,whether it be by trapping checks,disabling moves for safe switch ins to then set up on,by using wow to cripple a poke allowing your offensive pivot in more easily and again set up while it forces the switch or by suicidal means where it curses allowing a fresh switch and again forcing the switch to then once again set up.it does this with ease and can consistently do so in common battle scenarios.but like i said Im a noob and I can be totes wrong about it all together(as was proven about my initial argument)discussions are meant to have multiple people with different stand points,sometimes a persons perspective on something is wrong and its through healthy discussion that these individuals are given all the possible information to then assess their own views with a more educated and enlightened perspective.

You're right,it seems out of habit i chose the ADV tab instead of DPP,I apologise..let me revise those calcs for you 252+ SpA Kingdra Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon in Rain on a critical hit: 129-153 (63.8 - 75.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 252+ SpA Kingdra Hidden Power Electric vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Vaporeon on a critical hit: 152-180 (64.1 - 75.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 252+ SpA Kingdra Surf vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Chansey in Rain on a critical hit: 205-243 (57.4 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 252+ SpA Kingdra Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Venusaur on a critical hit: 142-168 (75.9 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery even though they were'nt in the format you're used to the damage rolls proved to be correct regardless.. ".this takes into account that my win condition has been fulfilled by means of trapping ludicolo and I've setup for the sweep" those were my exact words,I did'nt mention anything about kingdra setting up the rain,just that my win condition had been fullfilled and that the sweep was set up(i happen to use a suicide trode purely for rain and status) as for what kingdra has to do with gengar if you took the time to thoroughly read my post I happen to mention that this is just an example of what a sweeper can do with gengar as support.the reason I did this was to outline my reasoning for why I feel he fell under the uber characteristic for support. Support Characteristic A Pokémon is uber if, in common battle conditions, it can consistently set up a situation in which it makes it substantially easier for other pokemon to sweep. As you can see gengar does just that for kingdra,it made the sweep substantially easier by taking care of its checks and fulfilling my win condition. It does this on a consistent basis in common battle conditions not only for kingdra but most anything else(again,il reiterate kingdra was just an example i used out of familiarity.)

it certainly is. [spoiler]Rip you[/spoiler]

Overcentralization is bad because it is counterproductive to one of the most enjoyable things about pokemon: teambuilding. Gengar might not fit the uber characteristics in terms of pure offensive prowess but instead puts immense pressure on the opponent as a pivot,the momentum this dude grabs with a few easy predicts is insane.Beyond that its utilitarian nature makes it even harder to make the appropriate counter play without losing even more momentum to a miss play..I personally think that it falls under the support characteristic,it can consistently set up situations where other pokemon can easily sweep.and the thing is its not 1 or 2 ways that it does this but multiple ways.it can trap,disable and even curse as its on its last leg to give you a fresh switch while forcing a switch giving your sweeper a free turn to setup.core this with a trio to ensure your trap and win condition and it dominates even more..let me give you an example of something I'v personally built.this takes into account that my win condition has been fulfilled by means of trapping ludicolo and I've setup for the sweep.(modest 252 sp atk focus energy and scope lens) Kingdra Surf vs. Chansey in Rain on a critical hit: 206-243 (57.7 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery Kingdra Hidden Power Electric vs. Vaporeon on a critical hit: 146-172 (61.6 - 72.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery Kingdra Ice Beam vs. Venusaur on a critical hit: 142-168 (75.9 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Kingdra Surf vs. Umbreon in Rain on a critical hit: 130-153 (64.3 - 75.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery I calced venu and umb at calm with 252 hp and sp def..nothing switches in to this and lives to tell the story,at best your only hope is to stall rain out with umbreon as it only 3hkos without rain..unless im missing any other possible checks im pretty certain thats it in terms of your options.with 3 layers of spikes its pretty much gg.. And all this with minimal effort and prediction because of gengars support. [spoiler]this was just an example of gengars support characteristics,there are many more sweepers that sweep substantially easier because of its support capabilities alone. [/spoiler] as a whole I feel gengar is unhealthy for the meta not just because of the centralization taking place in ou because of it but because it fits under the support uber characteristics almost if not completely. [spoiler]take into account ima noob and suck at comp though so i could be totes wrong.first tiering discuss I've been involved in so im here to learn.[/spoiler]

I remember the update that introduced it,and honestly,I cant remember a time when I had more fun on this game.while there weren't any rewards,being the best is incentive enough for most.they had the groundwork lain to later roll in a reward system,but it seems it was more effort fixing the problems that arose than it was worth.or so the devs felt/feel.. look at games where the pvp system has been refined,you'l notice that even with the lack of content they have a consistent player base.sometimes its not about adding as much as you can but instead working on the key aspects and perfecting them. On to your suggestion though,I think its a good idea. I can see a player being demoralized from consistently getting nowhere in the competitive scene because they're just not on the level that their opponent is,in this respect the comp scene does currently favour the more experienced players,to such an extent that most tournaments are dominated by the same people over and over again.thus deterring most players who dont see the point in participating in something they have no chance in.this is why I like your idea,while the more experienced players have worked for their success(and deserve erry bit of it) the margin between them and newer players is so vast that one could argue that its indeed unfair for them to be matched up against each other. this is why I think a ranking system that groups players on their skill level is essential for this games comp scene. players need an equal oppurtunity to succeed.. +1

Shiny Pidgeotto (OT) Male how much? i refuse to take no for an answer [spoiler]lel bumpity[/spoiler]

any one whos done hoenn deserves a fucking medal,give that man a rayquaza,he earned it.

theres just too much grind and this adds to it,I see absolutely no point in spending the time or money(1 mil range for 25k and countless hours if youre poor)on one move for one poke,the competitive scene is this games end game but from an outsiders perspective you'd swear making comps were discouraged..a change was needed from the previous system,I agree.but,did we have to go a full 180 in the other direction? +1

i got the idea from doing it myself for a few mates,it was profitable and fun..If youre gonna do it for reals though lemme know have a few things i need lel the nice thing about niche markets is all in the name.its because they are exclusive very few people offer the service making the demand sustainable,just like bp grinding..point is theres always a way when the means present themselves,glad you saw what i meant:P

Lel myth busted..Id guess off the top of my head though thatd be like a .0 of a percentage difference so you still get the point Its not pointless to argue when both parties go into the disagreement with the notion that either has yet to be proven right and both parties involved acknowledge that they can indeed be proven wrong,when a person with your mindset enters a conversation its one of "Im right,you cant see it from my perspective so you must be wrong"..if someone had provided a valid counter argument as to why my theory or thought process on a certain subject was wrong it would be foolish to ignore that person.instead,a wise man would acknowledge he was wrong and learn from it instead..Now,I looked at your point of view from a subjective standpoint and came up with conclusion that you were infact wrong about your beliefs and gave a good counter argument with the information neccesary to make an informed decision of your own.If you had strongly disagreed with the points I had made then forming an articulate well though out counter argument would of been the way to go,not just say Im wrong because you say so.. How do you expect people to see your point of view if youre not willing to explain it? 1.The reason current breeding was implemented is because of an influx of a certain formerly rare commodity but there being no outlet for it,what use would money be if it wasnt relevant because every one had vast amounts of it?if the supply overwhelms demand then the desire is equally affected..in other words making it worthless. 2.While I feel your frustration when it comes to selling pokemon,stop to think why it is the way it is right now...(refer to point 1.) 3.Refer to point 1. again,this explains exactly why. and finally,you question the Devs and indeed the game as a whole as to why instead of evolving and thinking of an alternative solution we instead went the route we did.Well,I ask you this,why dont you take the initiative and "evolve" your own methods of breeding and making money?I know of a few well known players who would gladly pay a fair and reasonable price for competitive pokemon theyre seeking,instead of selling your stuff on trade "evolve" your method of making money/breeding and start a Niche' business..Build pokemon on demand catering for a specific player and get rewarded for doing so.youre looking at it from a negative perspective..Theres still money to be made in breeding and theres still fun to be had you just need to see the oppurtunity and cease it..

I wholeheartedly agree,The grind involved in building a pokemon is insane,its monotonous,dull,time consuming and at the best of times a complete burden to most..You'l notice though that my statement was directed towards the people who complained that acquiring a 6 31 is difficult/hard/not so easy to obtain/a complete bore to aquire/too expensive etc etc(you get the point) and that its an absolute must in a competitive environment as so many of them either imply or straight out say..This view in my honest opinion is the view of someone who hasnt gone in depth in terms of competitive pokemon and just assumes because it has a "better" IV it automatically makes it better than its less abled counterpart..I had had enough of this misguided opinion/belief and felt i needed to set them straight with concrete evidence..6 31 poke should be rare and hard to aquire and the new breeding if anything made it easier after the update,we actually control every aspect of our final product and compared to breeding of years passed I personally love the fact that I can choose how I want a poke to turn out..The new mechanics are amazing in my personal belief,and getting that comp worthy poke is easier than ever..Now this is where "Comp worthy" doesnt seem to sit well with certian individuals and I made the argument I did to prove that the difference between a 25 and 31 IV is at best minimal,to prove that this pursuit of 6 31s is pointless but also is not a necessity to play competitively..Thus,nullifying their whole argument.. so,when people complain about breeding and what a chore it is to make a 6 31 and effectively get into the comp scene I see it as a shitty excuse for their laziness(and perhaps just pure ignorance),6 31s are for aesthetics and as such have absolutely no relevance to the grander scheme of the competitive scene...so their whole "oh its so hard to breed 6 31s cause i need 62 poke with a 31 IV to make a pokemon I need so i can play competitively" is utterly uninformed.. Basically what Im tryna say is that breeding is fine as it is when comp worthy pokemon are readily available with minimal effort in terms of breeding..If the 6 31s are as hard as they are to get then so be it,its for aesthetics,and when a person uses or builds a poke to look pretty then the time it took to get is irrelevant..it starts becoming a problem when these comp worthy poke are hard to obtain and it restricts the competitive scene as a whole..,

Assuming you familiar with how IV's work I'm sure You're also familiar with damage rolls and EV's..Now at lvl 100 1 IV always nearly corresponds to a difference of 1 stat extra per IV,at level 50 this changes,from a difference of 4 stats between 25 and 31 with a + nature and 3 with a neutral nature..now lets run some damage calcs to see how significant this difference is in a competitive enviroment... level 100 Ursaring Return vs. Vaporeon: 186-219 (40 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 31 IV adamant 252 Ursaring Return vs. Vaporeon: 183-216 (39.4 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 25 IV adamant 252 level 50 Ursaring Return vs. Vaporeon: 97-115 (40.9 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 31 IV adamant 252 Ursaring Return vs. Vaporeon: 95-112 (40 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 25 IV adamant 252 Now lets try with something like hidden power where the rolls might matter Level 100 Magneton Hidden Power Fire vs. Forretress: 316-372 (89.2 - 105%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO 31 IV modest 252 Magneton Hidden Power Fire vs. Forretress: 309-364 (87.2 - 102.8%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO 25 IV modest 252 Level 50 Magneton Hidden Power Fire vs. Forretress: 166-196 (91.2 - 107.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO 31 IV modest 252 Magneton Hidden Power Fire vs. Forretress: 163-192 (89.5 - 105.4%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO 25 IV modest 252 3hkos remain 3hkos,2hkos stay 2hkos,the only time it matters is on The roll when you use hidden power for the ohko,and even then the rolls are negligible and situational at best,at both level 100 and 50.even though theres a slightly more noticable difference at level 100 with regards to IV's and their benefits the damage rolls prove that the few extra stats a poke gains with a 31 IV over a 25 is marginal..Ofcourse these are just random calcs with commonly used poke I just took off the top of my head but really,trust me when I say that 98% of the time a 31 IV does not matter and is for pure aesthetics..The only time 31 has mattered to me is on a + speed nature poke where a speed tie is necessary.. Competitively it makes no noticeable difference... So,my kind sir,if you cant settle for a 25+ all 31 speed poke to use in a competitive environment then the onus is on you and you alone,if you want a 6 31 poke then you need to work for it.it should be hard..We're not playing the handheld,this is an MMO and as such acquiring things(especially higher tier IV'ed poke)should be a challenge,but also not a necessity to enjoy the game... This message is dedicated to ALL the people who keep complaining about how hard it is to get a 6 31,this proves just how misplaced your views are and how your complaints are completely invalid..The new breeding is epic..get over it.

Batman to the rescue