YettoDie

Mienfoo really doesn't like any incoming moves from Misdreavus, especially not Psychic, sure it will U-turn pretty much all the time. Mienfoo always loses HP to the U-Turn, ofc it can still switch normally to get Hp back.

To elaborate on this, a lot of people value a knocked off Misdreavus higher than their burned Mienfoo.

Where to start without becoming a broken record, I already thought Misdreavus was busted before it getting access to Nasty Plot. With access to Nasty Plot, the best check now is probably Spdef Stunky. It still comes down to a predict. Porygon/ Munchlax It reduces the amount of viable pokes that could help make the tier healthier, within the spoiler the argument I made in the other thread. Currently the only viable 19 speed pokemon in the tier is Misdreavus. Misdreavus wins 1v1 all other 19 speed pokemons. Other 19 speed pokes, being, Abra, Aipom, Buizel, Buneary, Magby, Meowth, Poliwag, Ponyta, Staryu, Taillow and Wingull. Three of them have a good match up vs Mienfoo, being Abra, Staryu and Taillow. Not even mentioning Yamask, Frillish and Gastly, which are currently almost completely outclassed by Misdreavus. In the 18 speed tier Doduo and Gastly are the main outliers which can also in their turn take care of Mienfoo. Most of the time Misdreavus is being played with Mienfoo, as Mienfoo can easily U-turn out into Misdreavus. They cover each other quite good. Mienfoo can take out Misdreavus checks and vice versa. None of the new ghosts have the speed or bulk to make that combo work. Misdreavus just makes teambuilding a whole lot more difficult, restricts versitility. What I do wonder, is the people saying Misdreavus should stay, what their arguments are.

me vs @Laz in 25

bred 6 5x31 in 7 or 8 hours. that is mental

3 pokes in 5 hours, decently well priced with the current no breeder market. would recommend

With 98 base speed there are quite a few pokes to outspeed it, with plenty to 1hk0 it, even without scarf. It is also weak to mach punch of Conk, which seems to be used a fair bit in OU. That is as far as my observation for OU goes, not informed enough to discuss that. Misdreavus with 19 speed, as previous mention doesn't really get outsped, none of the other 19 speed win vs it 1v1, same goes for the 20 speed pokes. You'd have to rely on scarfers, to which it can just switch out.

So previously Porygon had a decent match up vs Misdreavus, with Nasty plot it becomes pretty much useless, now, I did change the 36 hp evs for 36 def evs. There are arguments for both to be played. This gives Misdreavus 22/13 instead of 23/12. Misd uses Nasty Plot, 0- Atk Porygon Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 36 Def Eviolite Misdreavus: 10-12 (45.4 - 54.5%) -- 12.1% chance to 2HKO Possible damage amounts: (10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 12) +2 236 SpA Misdreavus Hidden Power Fighting vs. 236 HP / 236+ SpD Eviolite Porygon: 12-16 (46.1 - 61.5%) -- 96.5% chance to 2HKO Possible damage amounts: (12, 12, 12, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 16) That would give Stunky the ability to have a good chance within a 1v1 setup Now the second option being Munchlax, 236+ Atk Munchlax Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 36 Def Eviolite Misdreavus: 8-10 (36.3 - 45.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO Possible damage amounts: (8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 10) +2 236 SpA Misdreavus Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 236 SpD Munchlax: 13-16 (43.3 - 53.3%) -- 23.8% chance to 2HKO Possible damage amounts: (13, 13, 13, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 16) +2 236 SpA Misdreavus Hidden Power Fighting vs. 0 HP / 236 SpD Munchlax: 18-22 (60 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Possible damage amounts: (18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 22) Same thing with Porygon, though now you have to hope you get a 13 or 14 hit with tbolt to not activate berry juice on lax.

+2 236 SpA Misdreavus Thunderbolt vs. 92 HP / 188+ SpD Eviolite Stunky: 11-14 (45.8 - 58.3%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO Possible damage amounts: (11, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 14) (Stunky has 24 hp with the spread) 92 Atk Stunky Sucker Punch vs. 36 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Misdreavus: 14-18 (60.8 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Possible damage amounts: (14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 18) 92 Atk Stunky Pursuit vs. 36 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Misdreavus: 8-12 (34.7 - 52.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO Possible damage amounts: (8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 12) That would be 16 damage on the switch with the set you provided unless I'm mistaken the most common outcome 14+8 = 22/23 hp. I do fully agree that Stunky is a solid poke against Misdreavus. That doesn't mean that Nasty Plot Misdreavus isn't busted.

Let me make a fun anolagy, the biggest bully on the playground just gets access to a baseball bat, sure he can be taken out, but not without some heavy collaterol.

Pretty sure I nowhere compared Misdreavus with Diglett. Stunky will be nice to take on most Misdreavus, then again, the latter will most likely get Nasty Plot. Yesterday it was unknown that Sinnoh would hit soon. Stunky Sucker vs Misd Misd vs Stunky It would still come down to predicting.

Most people will agree that within LC, Misdreavus, Mienfoo, Diglett and Clamperl are an issue one way or another. With it not being too uncommon to two or more in one team. Misdreavus has "in general" difficulties dealing with Munchlax and Porygon. Mienfoo has a rough time against poison types like Grimer, Trubbish, Tentacool. With the first two being immume vs Knock off, a move most Mienfoo's carry. Diglett can take reasonably safely take care of the pokes Mienfoo has issues dealing with, combined with the fact that it gets Memento, it gives Clamperl a good chance of setting up / attacking. Clamperl with Deepseatooth, Protect, Hp Fire/ Hp Electric, Surf, Ice beam, Shell Smash. With a combination of four of those moves it can delete entire teams, only a handful of pokes live +2. +2 timid Clamperl is outsped by 18 or higher speed scarfers, of which there aren't many, though Misdreavus is included in that list. The reason I brought up Misdreavus and not one of the other three, is due the fact that to defend against Misdreavus someone is almost forced to run either Porygon or Munchlax, that compared with before mentioned 19 speed, you either have to risk a speed tie and most likely not 1hk0 Misdreavus, while dying yourself. Or take one of the three 20 speed pokes and have them tickle it. LifeStyle mentioned Misdreavus holding the tier together, while there is an argument to be made there. It is also arguable that it makes the tier significantly more unhealthy. It restricts three great ghost types from being able to shine. Those being Yamask, Frillish and Gastly. Yamask has a quite decent match up vs Mienfoo with the ability Mummy. Frillish doesn't like that Mienfoo isnt a gentleman with the Knock Off and U-Turn, it can still emotionally recover from it. Gastly in the currently meta is a weaker Misdreavus but with Poison Type and access to Giga Drain, other than that both movesets are quite similar. Yes, the special attack is higher than Misdreavus, the other stats are lower, especially the defenses. The difference between 18 and 19 speed is quite significant. LifeStyle also mentioned the fact that LC might not have a big enough playerbase to take the blow of the ban. People will adapt there are on average two to three LC tourneys a week, most of them are filled. People did adapt with the 3 month Diglett test ban by using more poison and electric types and Trapinch.

me vs @XondeX in like 10 or after luke

me vs @yosoyarca in 11 minutes GG hermano

Tier: LC Misdreavus has been used a lot since Unova hit, as it unbanned it from the tier. It has been brought up atleast one time previously if memory serves right, though this was with Scraggy still in the tier. Therefore a new (test) ban suggestion seems in place. Why is this worthy of a ban? Versatility and Coverage - Misdreavus is without a doubt versatile, its movepool is absolutely massive. It's base stats is the highest in the tier, amazing typing combined with the ability levitate giving it three immunities. The two common achetypes that is currently played are, scarf and eviolite. While it's impossible to cover all the different movesets Misdreavus can run, there are a few noteworthy, keep in mind I'll only present the most common EV spread being: 36/0/0/236/0/236, giving it 23/9-12/12/18/15/19 stats. Scarf: Trick, Shadow Ball, Thunderbolt, Psychic, Hidden Power Fire/Fighting. Eviolite: Shadow Ball, Thunderbolt, Psychic, Hidden Power Fire/Fighting, Calm mind, Substitute, Will-o-Wisp, Pain-Split. It basically depends on your team what you need out of Misdreavus. Usage - While LC is a tier where high usage is much more common than other tiers, Misdreavus has for the past half year kept a steady 60+% usage rate. The only other contender for high usage is Mienfoo with rougly the same usage. Dec 2019 : 65.35% Nov 2019 (Without Diglett) : 69.80% Oct 2019 (Without Diglett) : 59.86% Sept 2019 (Without Diglett) : 65.31% Aug 2019 : 65.89% July 2019: 63.32% Limits teambuilding - The only two pokemon that can "reliably" deal with are Porygon, arguably the best answer with Foul Play, and Munchlax which is hindered if it gets Tricked or burned by Will-o-wisp. Yes, both of them are currently quite good in the meta, they are hindered as they can't take too much damage to face Misdreavus. Mienfoo, which often is willing to get burned, or severly damaged to take of the item of Misdreavus. Since it's impossible to know what set it carries until you've either taken a lot of damage, or your counter is already feinted. You'd need to keep them at either full health or not use them until Misdreavus enters the field. As for revenge killing, with Misdreavus being in the second highest speed bracket within LC, being 19, there are very few pokes to speed tie with it, or to outspeed pokes need to be scarfed with pursuit, contenders being, sandile, pawniard and doduo (keep in mind, all of them can be killed if Misdreavus doesn't switch, as no Pursuit kills it outright). Otherwise it can just switch out safely. The only thing Misdreavus misses is reliable recovery, even that can be arguably fixed with Pain Split. Pursuit Foul Play Potential Pokemon's that can get out of hand. Mienfoo Clamperl