Robofiend

TC has seen the most recent usage stats, as soon as we get another UU in then I think all the stats will be released. I'm rather annoyed as well since the last usage update was from October.

Yeah, I definitely agree that Chansey makes things boring. There's a reason this thread has stayed open so long, though, and it's because usage stats haven't materialized for us in ages to test our theories and because a potential ban is still on the table. When I say that the tier is diverse, I mean it's better than anything we've had before since the split- no 60% Gengar, no 60% Curselax, etc. People do use odd pokemon here and there, like Blaziken, Charizard, and CB Swampert, however. I think your issue is similar to JJ's thread about how people breed safe, boring pokemon instead of innovate because the cost of innovation is so much higher than just playing it safe. It's way easier to rip off someone else's team than it is to say "Fuck it, I'm breeding SubPunch Zard, Trapinch, Trick Zam instead of wall Arcanine" because there's the risk that these pokemon are not going to be as useful as I will say one thing: I'm coming back around to the idea of banning Chansey, in part because of the community's input, but I still find it rather troubling. First, being boring =/= being banworthy yada yada. Second, I'm not sure if banning Chansey would help that much. Umbreon, Gardevoir, and Vaporeon can still perform a similar role on teams, though not without Heal Bell. Without Chansey, Toxic stall can kill many specially defensive pokemon and Special Kingdra is pretty hard to stop without Ludicolo or Vaporeon, both of whom are harder to swap into. While there are options here, I like Chansey because it also allows for offensive teams to have some confidence against random special threats and status-stall that would otherwise take 2 walls to deal with. Londar ninja'd me on that. I'd like to keep complaints about the game (e.g. not complaints about the metagame, but complaints about how hard it is to grind for everything) out of this thread to avoid a derail.

We're waiting on Scizor in UU and not really sure what to do about Chansey in OU. There are lots of mixed opinions here about what the best way to proceed is. We have updated usage that applies to Chansey in particular, but I believe it's still classified until we get UU usage. We also have been discussing some mechanics changes with staff to make sure that nothing breaks the game there. As for NU, no one has bothered to post in the NU Tier Discussion Thread since Christmas, so I'm not sure what you want here. We've internally talked a little bit about Zangoose and Lapras but since we haven't had any complaints from the community we've agreed to sit back and let the tier develop some more. Every time I play NU I feel the game is balanced, diverse, and interesting, so I'm personally not highly interested in pushing for more bans, although maybe pokemon like Zangoose and Lapras deserve some public discussion. I like that NU is a really offensive tier where stall can still thrive. Well technically nothing has been done since we re-organized the TC structure into a supergroup instead of a bunch of warring factions. Your leaving was coincidental. If you recall, slowing down the process was a highly intended consequence of this, because in the past, various sub-councils had moved too hastily in making decisions. We all still disagree on pretty much everything and it's hard to get everyone to come around to vote on things (it also hurts that we lost Noad). I personally don't see what the issue is: OU is more interesting than it has been in months, UU is stalled as you would expect, NU is pretty enjoyable.

Damn I want to test me new team but I'm afraid of you rekting my azu with your draco meteors.

I honestly enjoy all of this salt

Right, but Zard does destroy wall-heavy teams, especially if you find a way to neuter their sweeper support early enough. I'm not saying it's A+, but that it does have a niche and plenty of options to stay threatening despite the opponent's team.

But it's not just the Gladiator set. Sub Punch sets are great for catching Aerodactyl with Tpunch and Charizard's weaknesses to Rock and Water (and Electric) can be mitigated by other offensive teammates. Other pokes like Jolteon and Starmie are great at revenge-killing but can be played around to some degree, especially since Chansey is so common, and full offensive Starmies are kinda rare. I've got Zard listed at B+ - it's not a meta-defining pokemon, but with the right teammates it can successfully fill its niche as a jack-of-all trades attacker and wallbreaker.

mfw

mfw canines are now zoo animals

Breloom is questionable anyway - Weezing's a nearly perfect check to CB sets and Metagross resists at least two of its attacks well enough to swap in. Not to mention that Gyarados, Arcanine, Heracross and a bunch of other offensive pokes can switch in on it. If no one's going to contest JJ's ranks, I'll just use those.

Heard the Mountain went like 0-8 so you should be fine

Only one problem here JJ - for some reason there's no "minus" rankings. Maybe it's time though.

Kaynine Episode 2: The Clown Wars joke stolen from coolio

k9 confirmed god of ORAS in training http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-325915193

We'll start Miltank at B and then see what happens - maybe it'll become more viable with time. Rhydon can go B+ for now. EDIT: I'd like to hear thoughts on Blaziken, Swampert, Flygon and Weezing. I think each deserves a boost, but maybe not. All of them seem to have useful niches. For example: Blaziken can't get Wisp'd by the common Weezing, Swampert with CB has great coverage, Flygon is a common way to cover up some of Metagross/Arcanine's weaknesses. Weezing is also pretty solid as it can't get worn down by Chansey, has a couple useful resistances, and it's super highly used. Others like Venusaur and Sceptile may also deserve some love.

ever wonder why I went 4:3 and now have over 5 mil in Pokeyen despite never playing? :^)

Can you explain your reasoning? I don't see any reason why it's inconceivable for this game to have balanced metagames.

Well there are a couple other things that can be a problem. It doesn't like Steel types and also struggles against Sableye. Whimsicott is pretty solid too, since it can Encore me into submission, but Crobat, & Arcanine are there to keep any of them from being too threatening. Mandi isn't scary at all to me since Cobalion can abuse Foul Play/Toxic, altho it'd be nice to have a fairy to deal with it.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-325700132 rmt material imo, i really enjoy the synergy. struggles against well executed stall sometimes, though.

doctor pbclutch

Since when do non TC get to post ban discussion threads? pls lock rip jj [spoiler] =) [/spoiler]

All pokemon are in Ubers therefore there aren't any pokemon in the other tiers so we don't need PU q.e.d.

I hope you realize that this is a huge mistake and that everyone's just going to run offenseless stall teams in hopes of losing

you a legend

Mostly joking on that one, sorry for the red herring. I agree that unbanning Gengar isn't the best option. I personally find the current state of OU to be pretty agreeable, minus some annoying parts like Linoone or super heavy stall teams (which can get rekt pretty hard by Blaziken or Ursaring in the right conditions). I think it's cool that a lot of new sets have been used since Gengar/Trio were banned: from Block Metagross to Blaziken to CB Swampert to Subseed Sceptile, there are a lot of options now that would go by the wayside if everyone had to readapt to running 3 Gengar counters every match. EDIT: @4f I understand that you're frustrated, but I think that the majority of the council thinks Chansey is annoying but ultimately not a major problem for the game. We don't think that because we just think that, we think that because that's generally what people have said in the thread - it's not banworthy but it is a huge pain in the ass. Earlier in this thread, I pushed a lot for a ban, but after the Dugtrio ban and some more meta adaption, I've kinda lost my will to ban it. I'm not entirely sold on that point of view: maybe in a month when literally everyone is using it, it will be overcentralizing or broken. But right now I think its flaws are just too exploitable for us to make sense of a ban. More than anything, its hard to see what banning Chansey would fix. Lots of other pokemon can Wish/Protect stall, spam Toxic and cleric teammates (although I have said that Chansey's NC ability is a really important improvement in the past). The most annoying parts about Chansey (Toxic/ST chip damage/Cleric) would still be present in other forms. Stall will never die, sadly, it's just something that happens.