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Robofiend

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Everything posted by Robofiend

  1. K here are some changes: Kingdra to S: An undeniably good pokemon whose one great check, Ludicolo, has fallen by the wayside as Chansey has become more popular. DD punishes teams lacking Gyarados and Rain is almost unfairly good once Chansey and Porygon have been worn down. Versatility is always nice - and some physical sets exploit common switch ins like Gyarados by running HP Electric. Metagross back to S: For a while I had this thing at A+ but it's so common and so useful in a world where Toxic stall dominates and CB Tpunch is relatively unresisted by common walls. Great poke that defines the metagame. Chansey to A+: while it's blobishness hurts, it absolutely shuts down most bulky teams without a cleric and can even destroy offense with spikes and status. Easy the tier's most reliable (if not best) special wall Arcanine to A+: A great wall that can hurt bulky waters, prevent Reversal sweeps and generally piss off phys sweepers with its handy ability and reliable recovery. Gyarados to A+: A sweeper that doesn't care about much except P2 and Weezing. Commonly used with a useful ablity. Starmie remains A: even if t can't sweep very reliably, its ability as a status absorber and rapid spinner with recovery is inherently useful. Forretress to A: Rapid spinning is great, as is its reliability against non HP Fire Magneton (who are rather uncommon). A spiker that can run a mixed defensive set with Toxic if it needs to. Pain Split is a massive boon in a tier filled with things that love to abuse 1 turn recovery. Marowak to A: A former star of OU that has returned to break walls once again. With fewer water types in the tier and the stats to punch huge holes in grounded teams with Bonemerang or EQ, Marowak should be feared and has begun to see more use because of it. Ursaring to A: An awesome Toxic stall check with amazing coverage for teams that don't want to give up a spot for Magneton. Absolutely runs over walls, but can be worn down pretty easily by ambient damage. Heracross to A: Like Ursaring, Guts make it scary (as does SD) and it abuses Chansey particularly well by either Pursuit trapping it or setting up on the Protect to go for a sweep. Unfortunately, it falters against Skamory Skarmory to A: The steel bird is master of OU spikes and unlike Forretress, it can Taunt, Rest, and Drill Peck well. Its sky-high defense prevents sweeps from Aerodactyls, Heracross or Metagross and Whirlwind is incredibly useful against common Dragon Dancers. Magneton to A: The trapper that everyone kinda loves (unlike Dugtrio) who can dewall your team handily if you let it get a sub up. While its ground weakness can be pitiful and its movepool shallow, it's currently the only common special attacker that can take out a Chansey in a pinch - Metal Sound combines amazingly well with Spikes to irritate and wear down bulky teams without a Marowak. Tauros to B+: Imo its underrated, especially when it has Facade, Pursuit, EQ and it has only benefitted from Magneton's high usage. I would also like some debate here. I think you're systematically ranking things a bit low. Gard might be a bit below A rank. Would love to see more discussion on all of these. Starmie is staying A rank for reasons listed in my post, although the sweeper set is bad it's still a grade-A rapid spinner in a tier drowning in Spikes.
  2. Lol yeah, that derail - everyone else can disregard. I do agree that Grassers are scary because we don't have defensive fire types or many viable answers to Grass/Fire. Also sucks because we don't have any of the good Flying, Fire or Psychic phys. moves so grass/poison types can sponge pretty much everything on the phys side without fear. LF devs to fix that.
  3. Yeah, this is a legit concern, although it is notable that Sceptile can put a good sized dent in Plume or even 2 shot it with some spikes support. LF Fearow, I guess.
  4. Well I wasn't suggesting them myself so much as offering up ideas for people to discuss, the original wording was more like "here are some possibilities for where the tier could go because recently a lot of people have been complaining that wallteams are too good/common". I like Sceptile in particular because of how well Plume does against a lot of its sets but I'm not like dead set on bringing it down for testing. This all kinda came from the request that we ban Slowking, which might in turn cause more bans and prolong the imbalance in the tier... That idea should probably be discussed more.
  5. If they added it to Steam they'd have to include the roms which would be illegal iirc
  6. Looks like you need some EV's brah I'm tempted to say 252hp/252speed
  7. That awkward moment when Arcanine is bad, Entei OP
  8. http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-285773389 made this UU team on the suggestion of UU cores, pretty devastating hyper offense
  9. Clearly. But I'm not suggesting we bring down broken stuff, I'm suggesting we bring down Sceptile, who doesn't actually look broken when you look at the calcs. However, I do like your point about how many noobs this game has, and how costly comps are, so its not surprising that we don't have a lot of innovation or good teambuilding. That said "blame the game" doesn't really do too much for tiering and I've tried to sell DS on ideas like inheritable EVs, redistributable EVs, etc. to let players experiment more with their comps. So far no luck there, but the bottom line is that we have to work with what we have to get good metagames and that might not be super easy.
  10. Well.. other things can be used Crawdaunt/Scizor (Breloom, Scizor, Slowking each can take certain attacks from either) it just so happens that Vileplume does a good job of checking everything. Vileplume still stops Superpower, Waterfall, Bullet Seed without the maximum defense stat. Thus, players could choose to defend against Sceptile and use another pokemon to less reliably check Crawdaunt or Scizor in favor of having better defense against special attacks. It doesn't seem super likely, but it'd at least be a choice. I may or may not have pointed this out before in this thread, but the thing that rubs me the wrong way about UU lately is that nothing runs more than one set. Sure, there are one-offs like Twave/CM Slowking or DD Crawdaunt, but generally the sets people run are amazingly unsurprising. Good metas incentivize innovation and polymorphism (srs couldn't think of a simpler word for many sets) and I don't see that in UU very often.
  11. Since I didn't see Sceptile in action I can't really relate, but I feel like the meta last march was significantly different than it is now. I could still be wrong, I guess. I know I keep repeating this but if we think that Vileplume is too good/common/etc. then it shouldn't hurt to have Sceptile be able to beat it or take it down with one Niche set. Under normal battle conditions, SubEndeavor is functionally a 1 for 1 (at best). Players who can see it coming can abuse it by sending in Swellow (or Hitmon, whatever) on the Endeavor and then Pursuiting/Mach Punching you out. Vileplume can also adapt, if it chooses, to the threat of HP Fire by investing in special defense. Endeavor's a pain to play against but I don't see it as any more meta-breaking than SubSeed - it's also pretty easy to scout because of how necessary Leech Seed is to the Sub/Seed set to deal with things like Clefable.
  12. Robofiend

    Robofiend

    I'll give you the current b/o but I'm certain it's worth more
  13. #tbt to that time k9 was really surprised to find out they were different people
  14. Jeez, where's the stealth rock? Nvm you got it eventually Edit: Why are you ice punching when 2*75 = 150 and HJK is 1.5 * 130 = 225?
  15. I really want to see Wynaut + Belly Magmar or SD Breloom rekt everyone's team too. Also yeah idk about that Xatu set, didn't realize I had 252hp on that but you still do live the single pursuit. I'm tempted to believe that we don't actually have enough offensive variety and that's where the problem is coming from. So many of these pokes struggle with Vileplume that it's just a bit depressing. Nik's onto something with Houndoom tho, if you're running a Psychic type you're pretty much immediately done for. "damn near 2HKO's" - in other words, 0% chance of 2HKO 252 SpA Sceptile Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Exeggutor: 160-190 (40.6 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery Even if you switch in with 50% health (as long as you don't come in on HP Fire), Exegg can just synth up until it's ready to scare it out. One other idea that's not very common is using Clefable or Wynaut to Encore Sceptile into Subbing/Leeching forever, but that's not a common set afaik. Unless its some mixed set, like Fire/Quake, Tentacruel can feel ok switching in and abuse Liquid Ooze to keep Sceptile from getting too scary on you. "with spikes it does I believe" - yes, with max spikes and a correct prediction Sceptile wins, but.. idk that's kinda just how offense works. 252 SpA Sceptile Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Exeggutor: 160-190 (40.6 - 48.2%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes and Leftovers recovery 252 SpA Sceptile Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Exeggutor: 160-190 (40.6 - 48.2%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO after 2 layers of Spikes and Leftovers recovery 252 SpA Sceptile Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Exeggutor: 160-190 (40.6 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 3 layers of Spikes and Leftovers recovery Scizor, Crawdaunt and Breloom all 2HKO their counters too after 3 layers of spikes, so it's not like this makes Sceptile really special. 252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor Steel Wing vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Exeggutor: 151-178 (38.3 - 45.1%) -- 75.4% chance to 2HKO after 3 layers of Spikes and Leftovers 252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor Steel Wing vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vileplume: 151-178 (42.6 - 50.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 3 layers of Spikes and Black Sludge recovery 252 Atk Choice Band Crawdaunt Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vileplume: 148-175 (41.8 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 3 layers of Spikes and Black Sludge recovery 252+ Atk Choice Band Breloom Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vileplume: 147-173 (41.5 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 3 layers of Spikes and Black Sludge recovery
  16. I'm not so sure about the supposed brokenness of Houndoom+Breloom @Nik - Xatu can win with HP Fight, which isn't a terrible move for it given how popular Fable/Kanga are: 252 Atk Houndoom Pursuit vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Xatu: 134-162 (40.1 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 252 Atk Houndoom Crunch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Xatu: 270-320 (80.8 - 95.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery +1 252 SpA Xatu Hidden Power Fighting vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Houndoom: 190-224 (65.2 - 76.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Xatu wins, assuming they split the speed tie and both are at full health. Breloom is also checked incredibly well by Vileplume, so again it's a bit "meh" to me - even if it does have advantages over much of the rest of the tier. Also a combo of pokemon can't really be "broken AF" - that brings you back to the "core" argument that two things used together are broken but alone they aren't. You'd be hard pressed to find a lot of people who think either Breloom or Houndoom is the premier threat in UU. Regarding Sceptile - I think what UU needs is some diversity and variability. Every pokemon runs almost the same set on every team because it can - and if the sets are different, it's by one move. Houndoom is the tier's only Mixed attacker, Manectric is the only special sweeper (not gonna count Tenta cuz slow/weak) and nothing in the tier ever even sets up. There's an absence of risk, from what I've seen: you're never rarely to lose from predicting the wrong Crawdaunt attack, if your Plume or Slowking gets maimed by a strong attack you just swap out and wait to recover later, and pretty much everything has a 100% perfect check. I think Sceptile is a great example of something that's scary but clearly not unbeatable, and moves like Swords Dance, SubSeed, Endeavor give it some surprise value that the tier honestly needs. Removing walls, in my eyes, doesn't seem to be the right thing to do. If we remove Slowking then we no longer have a real Scizor counter, if we remove Vileplume then we no longer have a reliable Breloom/Crawdaunt counter. As such, banning some of the top walls might just equate to banning top sweepers until we just end up with the old UU - which wouldn't be the right thing to do either, imo. I think it makes more sense to bring offense into the tier than to strip away a bunch of not-exactly-broken pokemon because we're not happy with the stall-y-ness. Regardless, this isn't going to happen overnight so yeah, discussions pls
  17. So I'd like to ask the community for help on this one: As many of you have witnessed, UU is extremely stall-heavy at the moment. Almost all of the top-used are walls and all of the top-used sweepers have trouble breaking through cores like Plume/King which are very common in the current metagame. The Tier Council believes UU deserves some more offense but we're not sure of how to do it. Among the current suggestions are: 1. Ban Slowking - this is popular but maybe undesirable - Slowking checks sweepers like CB Crawdaunt stuck in Waterfall, CB Scizor and CB Hitmonlee. Banning Slowking might rob the tier of even more offensive pokemon, which means we might end up with just as much stall afterward as we have now. Current annoying sets like Twave or Calm Mind fall to Toxic, while most sets struggle against popular special walls like Clefable and Kangaskhan, who can simply Toxic Stall or heal status before it becomes a problem. 2. Ban Vileplume - more common than even Slowking, Vileplume also has great typing to prevent Crawdaunt, Hitmonlee and Breloom from tearing through the tier with their STAB attacks. There is some concern that banning Vileplume would make other top tier sweepers a problem as well, as well as the fact that its limited Synthesis PP doesn't allow it to outstall other common walls that can force it out of play, like Clefable. In either of these cases, it doesn't seem abundantly obvious that either are truly "broken" or even considerably unhealthy. Both are weak against special walls and fail against faster offense like Grumpig, who is not often used, but in theory could set up against either. Other suggestions include: 1. Banning Dusclops - the god of spinblockers, this pokemon alone makes Omastar and Tentacruel fail at their jobs as spinners. When used as part of a stall team, Dusclops proves incredibly hard to break. Nonetheless, Dusclops stall teams aren't super common, and it struggles with things like Houndoom, who's not entierly uncommon. 2. Bringing down offensive threats from BL - since it's not clear that anything is particularly OP (unhealthy, maybe, but we don't have a lot of true S Ranks), maybe it'd be better if we brought down offensive pokemon that limit these common walls viability. In the past, bans have happened in metas that are different from the one we have now, and the lack of available wall-breakers and mixed attackers in UU is very apparent. Some ideas include: - Alakazam - Tauros - Medicham - Sceptile - Marowak While Tauros and Medicham are both theatening as hell without Dusclops to dodge their STAB attacks, others here are less scary. Sceptile can provide good damage output against both Vileplume and Slowking, as well as support its team with SubSeed (which is in turn checked by Plume). Zam has checks like Swellow, Scizor, Houndoom, Dusclops and Kangaskhan/Clefable and its poor defenses can be unforgiving if it needs to switch in multiple times. Marowak, a former top-tier wallbreaker in OU lacks the typing and speed that makes other physical sweepers threatening in UU, but it can easily abuse grounded stall teams by Swords Dancing and breaking through popular cores without getting too afraid of Toxic Damage or Twave. Similar to Rhydon, Marowak struggles to deal with Offense, but it also cannot OHKO Vileplume or Slowking without a boost, thus giving it incentive to set up and switch ins and opportunity to enter battle without taking a lot of damage. It might have trouble entering battle - especially given the lack of Electric and Rock type moves used in the tier today and unlike Rhydon it lacks useful resistances to Normal, Fire and Flying. By no means are these the only options, but I do think it's important that people discuss these various options because there are a lot of different ways the tier can go and having lots of input is usually the best way to make decisions. By all accounts, it seems UU is not a super healthy or enjoyable tier at the moment (almost all of the top 10 pokemon in the tier are walls and we only have 1 option for special sweeper, Manectric) and that we need a way for offense to gain a little bit of viability for the tier to be enjoyable. I hope this is the right thread to put this in, yolo.
  18. 1. Get Relaxed/Sassy instead of these natures. Relaxed makes for a good Heracross/Metagross check, Sassy makes for a good Venusaur or Calm Mind user check. Arcanine also pairs up super well with Slowbro. 2. Morning Sun/Flamethrower/Crunch/Espeed/Toxic are the most common moves. Morning Sun is widely regarded as a "must-have". 3. Mixed Wall is the most common set 3. Usually Arcanine does't have HP but the only one I would really consider running is HP Electric to bait Gyarados & Aerodactyl. Arcanine generally just doesn't have the offensive options to be effective in OU with so many walls dominating the tier - the best it can do is provide support against common Steel types and hope to nail the Toxic on opposing Walls like Slowbro, Ludicolo or Porygon2. Choice Band Arc is an option, but genereally it's just "ok"
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