NikhilR

Think of the discussion threads as a support group where you can voice your opinion about the tier just to let it out of your system, while also ingesting copium that enables you to continue playing this game.

Preach. I think a lot of us are chasing the dragon where we're trying recreate or experience the same high that we all once felt when we played the game, but those days are long gone and are extremely hard to recreate with the direction in which this game is heading. They've been working on HA since 2015 or so, and while the recent update was good in terms of adding random battles, do remember that they chose to add random battles before making HAs and legendaries available to us. HAs and legendaries are available (or were available incase they no longer are now) to trainers in Battle Tower, yet they don't want to give it to us because they don't want to make it easy. Also, do note that they could provide us HAs in a way that would require you to perform extra steps, then breed new comps from scratch (perhaps you can't use old comps as breeders), rather than fixing it with a simple ability pill. I wouldn't hold my breath to find out what the unviable method of obtaining HAs or legendaries would be (if any).

I wanted to say thank you to the staff that recently hosted a tag team tournament. Please do more of these.

Having an advantage doesn't mean that the game has to be finished within a specific period of time. When you are running certain kinds of stall that are passive, and are maybe facing opposing stall, these duels will take longer to finish. You can perhaps beat your opponent because you have "pressure" as your ability on most mons, and as a result you can deplete your opponent's PP and win, but that's a strategy that takes time and can also be delayed by the opponent simply switching about (only after a certain time limit do you not get time back for switching about). -------------- I do agree with gb that the current rule needs some modification because it allows undeserving folks (people who weren't able to win the game at all) to advance, which isn't fair. That being said, I don't think an automated decision should always be made in such a situation. I think staff intervention is necessary as the staff can then extend the battle for 5 min longer if the staff feels that the game can be completed within a certain period of time, or staff can determine who the winner should be by evaluating the situation (need to have comp knowledge) and that way determine if another player is engaging in bad faith where they are trying to advance by relying on the timer because there is no other way to do so. It doesn't seem that farfetched to me because showdown tours are hosted by actual people who preside over the entirety of the tour and they can always consult with another staff team (tournament director team) if they need assistance with making a decision. This also used to be the case in MMO before automated tournaments became the norm.

I want to mention that a common theme to your recent threads is to bring back Silph Co tournaments (non-automated tours). I get how the sign-up process for automated tournaments is efficient and how it is less of a headache for hosts, but these automated tours are nowhere near as fun, as a player or spectator, as compared to tours in Silph Co. Hopefully staff will take your suggestions into consideration because I'm sure that the experience would consider bringing back a lot of the comp players (such as myself) who simply lurk on forums but don't log ingame.

Sorry about the state of your thread, Bryce! I don't think these guys should've been permabanned, like at least they should have been warned about not continuing such a practice. Firstly, these guys weren't actively scamming someone. When we think of scamming/fraud, we think of someone making a misrepresentation like telling a person that they will give them item A but instead actually giving that person item B. This wasn't the case here since what was offered is what was given. Secondly, what these guys did was target the naivety or stupidity of the playerbase, which honestly has been a very common practice. Since it has been a common practice that has gone unpunished, we don't really expect punishment for future practice of it. I could be wrong about practices taking advantage of naivety going unpunished, but even if I am wrong about it going unpunished, you should let it be known that such a practice is banworthy, and I don't get the impression that you have made it known that this is banworthy based on the replies in this thread. Regarding the commonality of it, you can see guys on trade chat who say stuff like, "Willing to offer 1m-5m for a shiny" only to potentially hope that some naive dude with a shiny charmander whispers them if they'd do the trade. Another way a player's naivety is taken advantage of is when a shiny charmander holder whispers one of these traders, "How much is this worth?" but the trader says something like "I don't know, but I can offer you 3m for it," which I'm sure happens. Another situation is when traders act in groups to take advantage of the naivety of a player, like where a first trader gives a lowball offer to the naive player which is rejected, then a second trader who is in cahoots with the first trader repeats the same lowball offer or an even lower one trying to get the naive player to think that maybe this lowball offer is the best they're going to get for their shiny.

I also want to point out that outside of revenge killing, Dugtrio can come on field through its partner's moves such as U-Turn and Teleport, or it can double switch. Now double switching Dug into a mon you can trap is a skill and the player should be rewarded, but this reward should come in the form of gaining momentum rather than winning the lottery by taking out an entire pokemon.

You're citing to the wrong piece of evidence to prove a lack of consistency in Dugtrio's ability to set up a situation to enable something to sweep. How is Dugtrio's winrate going to show you whether it consistently sets up a situation that makes it easier for another pokemon to sweep? A lot of factors go into affecting Dugtrio's winrate -> RNG such as the sweeper missing a move which stops it from sweeping, a crit on the sweeper when it tries to set up, a player who doesn't utilize the sweeper efficiently to sweep, the remaining 5 members of a team solely being responsible for winning without Dugtrio's support etc. The only way to show Dugtrio's ability to set up a situation that makes it easier for another pokemon to sweep is by looking at replays and seeing what options players have to dance around it or data like what kind of sweepers Dugtrio supports such that the tier's answers to those sweepers are susceptible to being trapped etc. I'm definitely not knowledgeable about the current NU meta, but I just wanted to point that those numbers alone will not help reflect Dugtrio's state in the tier. And it is so hard to argue with this when you don't give us the breakdown of the votes. Your statement could also mean that 3 people on SIA voted to not ban Dug while only one voted to ban it, which is still bothersome. I'm not saying Madara / Mkns are biased or that they make tiering decisions based on what they feel benefits their team, because they're better than that. What I am saying is that they may not subconsciously realize how much their playing style/mentality is affected when they are surrounded by like-minded players within a team and how that's been the case for years.

Can you share with us the breakdown of the votes of each member? To an outsider it is bad optics when you have 4 members of the TC who belong to the same team and can therefore have a huge influence on the votes. EDIT: Also what are the current activity levels of members like Zebra, Tyrone, and BlueBreath ingame?

At the end, 3 players from each team will be facing off against each other. So if you have 4 players, you will choose 3 out of those 4 to play. The other team will select 3 to play out of their total of 6 players.

Well incase you didn't know, staff live in a completely different bubble than the rest of us. The person in charge of putting these items back (someone probably higher up than Munya) is so stubborn that they don't want to admit that they were wrong to drop these items back into the game or even try to engage in a discussion with the community about these items. They don't engage in a discussion with the community to defend their choice of bringing these items back because they know how they'd be instantly called out for their stupidity. There have been 3-4 threads already created about these items since November, I think, and there hasn't been any progress on it. You can even tell that some of the staff are clueless about the effect of these items on competitive play because their immediate defense to keeping these items is to resort to its usage or its winrate, which isn't a valid defense. There's further evidence that staff live in a bubble when they don't realize how awful the reward system + economy of this game is. You earn so little for the effort you put in. Like what kind of a comp player would now want a shitty ass 4x25 / 2x31 shiny comp untradeable prize. "B-but you get to flex it?" Yeah, at this point I don't think anyone cares about flexing a shiny that they cannot use or when there's no one they can flex it to as the comp playerbase is just dying.

Congrats guys!

No one builds around Sand Veil because there's no way to properly deal with it. You said to use weather setters as a way to deal with it and I just showed you how horrible that answer was. Flame Body + Static do have RNG associated with it, but it's different from Sand Veil where one potentially leads to a sweep and another doesn't directly sweep. A Garchomp dodging an attack due to Sand Veil and potentially sweeping is different from you not taking into account of Flame Body / Static activation. Both of those have some strategy around it where you can punish something like U-Turn Scizor by switching in Volcarona against it. Flame Body / Static activation happen because of a choice you make, basically player autonomy. Moreover, when people decide to use something like Quick Claw, their strategy is to simply fish for RNG, whereas no one goes into a game with a strategy that their course of winning relies on Flame Body / Static activation. Specs is an item that people prepare for. It's also an item that one can readily tell based on damage output on a certain mon. By also knowing if a mon has specs, you can then choose how to play around it, like taking advantage of the fact that Torkoal is choice-locked. This doesn't apply to a pokemon holding quick claw. Like let's say you're Quick Claw Rhyperior and you moved after a Clefable. You may be able to tell through the damage roll -> okay this isn't Choice Band, Scarf, LO. If you bring a low-health Blastoise with Surf, and then Quick Claw activates, it becomes too late. Let's say you even know prior to bringing Blastoise out that the Rhyperior is holding a Quick Claw, how do you then proceed? The issue with Quick Claw is the unpredictability of a pokemon holding it + the RNG associated with it. Even if you do deduce that your opp is holding it, your decisions are not in your control but entirely RNG's control, and that's not competitive at all. Good luck OHKO'ing Cloyster with a defensive team. You also act like Cloyster doesn't get set up opportunities vs other kinds of teams. Cloyster has plenty of opportunities to set up against phys attackers -> Scarf TTar / Scizor locked into Pursuit or BP / Phys Garchomp etc. I think Bisharp doesn't have much OU usage, and even if it did, Sucker Punch fails vs Cloyster decides to Ice Shard that turn, so it's not guaranteed. BP Scizor + Mach Conk are really nice, but these are not specific to Kings Rock Cloyster. If your way of playing around a threat is to ohko it before it has the ability to flinch you, that's not an ideal strategy.

Massive cap. How is Kings Rock on Cloyster insignificant or how does it hinder the user's chances of winning? A +2 Focus Sash or White Herb Cloyster is probably not beating Bold Reuniclus, but one with Kings Rock has higher odds of beating Bold Reuni because of the higher flinch rate. If anything it helps Cloyster beat things that it wouldn't otherwise be able to beat. Now, are there situations where it would be advantageous to using Focus Sash or White Herb on Cloyster over Kings Rock? Yes, but not all the time. The issue is that you make it sound like as if Kings Rock is a completely inferior item to others, when it really isn't.

"Bring a weather setter of your own." Okay, so let's look at the list of non-sand weather setters in OU. From what I understand it's mostly Pelipper, with Abomasnow + Torkoal being weather setters in the lower tier. Of the 3, you will find Pelipper + Torkoal in teams centered around a weather strategy, which means on almost any other kind of team, these mons won't really have a slot. Aboma is a decent pick, but you think that's good enough? Let's say Abomasnow comes in, which is a rocks weak mon, you can either go to Abomanow's counter, or sack something and then bring Hippo back in to set sand up again. With rocks being on field too, Abomasnow is not going to be able to freely switch in, and it's not a mon that you easily slap onto an OU team because it rarely has much of an impact. These are terrible answers to deal with Sand Veil and their purpose is so specific -> stop a cheap strategy rather than have utility of your own. I'm not a fan of using such kind of mons. EDIT: Don't even bother bringing up Golduck unless you want to lose all credibility. Yeah enlighten us on how you play around flinches from Kings Rock Cloyster at +2. You're a follower of the all-or-nothing camp that believes in that there either be 100% RNG or 0% RNG, and we don't belong in that camp. Man, this isn't a "I don't like this because I lost to this and therefore it should be banned" thread. This is a "I don't like this because I lose to it as I can't prepare for it and therefore it should be banned." When in order to beat a strategy you have to be reliant on luck rather than prepare for it, there's a problem. There's no way to prepare avoiding being flinched by Cloyster unless you're running 6x special attackers that completely deny Cloyster the ability to set up, because once it does, there's no real way to prepare beforehand to avoid being flinched. The same applies to something like Quick Claw because: 1) you have no fucking clue if a mon does have it; 2) you have no idea whether it will activate. While I do think SG Togekiss is banworthy for separate reasons, it is still something that you can prepare for. ---------------------------- Also I hope the "smart" folks at Pokemmo who decided it would be a good idea to drop these items below give this a read: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/re-king’s-rock-and-other-“luck-items”.3682896/ Glad that Smogon TC isn't incompetent and decided to try banning these items before WCOP.

Why do people like you who have absolutely zero clue about PvP feel the need to comment on a PvP-related topic? Nonetheless, I'll still take the time and effort to entertain your worthless and uninformed opinion because there are a few who would genuinely want to know the answer to this. We want our pokemon competitive play to be on a level where there is a balance between luck and skill. There is going to be a conflict there because, in general, competitive play largely relies on skill over luck, yet we competitively play a game that uses a large number of luck-based elements. To balance out the two, we have clauses in place to minimize the amount of effect luck has on a game. Since you're absolutely clueless about it, here is a list of clauses in place: https://forums.pokemmo.eu/index.php?/topic/37764-official-pokemmo-list-of-clauses-updated-with-tournament-mode-clauses/ The purpose of the clauses is so that people don't rely on luck-based strategies to overcome skill, because that in effect would kill competitive play. The purpose of the topic is to remove these specific luck-based elements (kings rock etc.) because these completely kill competitive play. We're not asking to remove crits / damage rolls / status because then we wouldn't really be playing Pokemon. Not every single thing has to be in the extreme end of a spectrum (one end being 0 RNG and the other end being 0 bans/clauses) because a balance of the two can exist.

Linking to a previous post I made regarding this: https://forums.pokemmo.eu/index.php?/topic/126555-ban-quick-claw-kings-rock/&do=findComment&comment=1739779 Also an update to the post I made is the following screenshot from the BW OU council: It's nice when decisions that directly affect competitive play are made by competitive players rather than staff who are too stubborn to see the stupidity behind their decision to drop these items back into the game. It's also nice when Smogon's tiering council jumps in to resolve the issue while MMO's council just silently watches.

Please pick me in the name of Jesus!

Me vs GreenTwT in 5-10 min

Playing Freeza soon. EDIT: Won in a game that had I lost would've ended my MMO career, gg.

^That's how it is supposed to be.

Adding some more optional steps as outlined Life's post: Step 10 - get excited about update for new event and install game to grind money + vanities Step 11 - get depressed that devs then nerf event to reduce amount of money + vanities earned Step 12 - quit game after event is over Step 13 - get excited about hearing a new update only to then get depressed that new update is more vanities Step 14 - troll on forums Step 15 - play smogon tournaments / VGC if interested in competitive battling

What I would like to know is how is Haxorus worst in UU compared to OU. OU had to deal with Haxorus for years/months and it adapted to the point where Haxorus got less played. Why would it be any different in UU?

@gbwead I have a proposal: 1) you agree to ban Conkeldurr from OU, and I shall play this LC tour If LC is indeed dying and you need every single player possible to fill up the seats, then by not banning Conk in OU you could risk losing LC by having me and maybe others (@ThinkNicer and other anti-conk players please assemble) not participate, and we'd be happy to play in order to keep the tier you love alive xD

What I'm sad about is losing a Black Reaper Hood for nothing as I donated it to the event commemorating her death.