PandaJJ

IGN: PandaJJ

Replays: Game 1: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/vgc2016-321213316 Game 2: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/vgc2016-321219083

VGC 2016: CaptainKek vs. BlueBreath In 5-10mins (will post link)

Omg, just realized this is Thursday instead of Monday this time. Ily eggu

I guess I should say, if Rhydon is not carrying protect, I don't see why you would be comparing the two. As a lightning rod supporter, not having protect kinda kills the purpose. Its power is still only equal to Marowak when holding choice band, and obtaining more powerful RS at the cost of being locked into a move is a bad exchange imo. All of my comments about their defensive typing still remains, in which case Rhydon clearly sucks.

IGN: LordOfAngmar

Forgot to screenshot, but fred beat me

Me VS fred in 30mins

Pre-evolution moves now are available through the move relearner, so I'm not sure exactly how useful this is.

Yeah, I guess that time is fine not fred

IGN: LordOfAngmar

IGN: BlueBreath

Sure, but 3 PM GMT is midnight for me, so how much do you want to push it? I will have to do the match either before or after I sleep (implying I even sleep)

Uhh, I hope you are aware that's 10 AM EDT / 7 AM PST, aka in the morning (US is behind Europe.) We can change the time if that's inconvenient for you.

Fred VS me possibly 3PM GMT on Friday.

The laziness got to me, but I eventually sat down and did another one. Snorlax Base stats: 550 (160/110/65/65/110/30) -Snorlax is the most powerful exploding pokemon in the game, hitting slightly harder with Selfdestruct than Metagross’ Explosion. The advantage of using Snorlax is that you are not forced to give up your steel type in order to explode, as well as Snorlax having significantly better durability against special attackers. This means that against special attackers you are in no hurry to explode, and can use your high attack to dish out significant damage while remaining on the field. In particular rain teams should be wary when facing against Snorlax. With very few pokemon actually carrying fighting moves in doubles, normal typing together with its ice resistance from Thick Fat is not too bad defensively either. -Snorlax has lackluster defense, as well as being pretty much the slowest pokemon in the metagame. Since you need a lot of attack to remedy potential intimidates, you will notice that Snorlax doesn’t have the staying power it has in singles. Although there are few pokemon with fighting moves, the ones that do carry them tend to shut snorlax down completey. Hitmontop, Dragonite and Heracross are great answers if you can avoid a full power Double Edge coming your way. Metagross’ normal resistance and powerful physical attacks also makes it an ideal Snorlax stop, just watch out for Fire Punches and Earthquakes. [spoiler]BOMB Item: Sitrus Berry / Choice Band Nature: Adamant Ability: Thick Fat EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def Selfdestruct Double Edge / Body Slam Crunch / Earthquake / Fire Punch Protect / Earthquake / Fire Punch The spread might seem disappointingly simple, but this both optimizes bulk and attack power. Without band, you still get the OHKO on non-invested Gengar with crunch, OHKO on frail things like Jolteon with Double Edge, as well as being able to 2HKO most of the metagame. Choice band takes this to a new level, where even the likes of Kingdra is within OHKO range of Double Edge, while you can still survive 2 rain- and helping hand boosted Surfs. Choice band does reduce your bulk and flexibility, but opens up for coverage moves such as Earthquake and Fire punch, which will now 2HKO Metagross. Protect is obviously only there if you are using Sitrus Berry, but makes it easier to land a succesful Selfdestruct. Note that all of these remarks can be thrown out the window if Snorlax is intimidated, but Snorlax is all about that Selfdestruct anyways. Belly Drum Item: Sitrus Berry Nature: Impish Ability: Thick Fat EVs: 244 HP/ 252 Def / 12 SDef Return Fire Punch / Rock Slide Belly Drum Protect What did you say? We have a maniac over here? Well, Snorlax is one of the few pokemon, if any, that learns Belly Drum that could potentially use it to attack. First thing to note about this is that you need Follow Me support. After a Belly Drum, Return OHKOs everything that doesn’t resist it, as well as Aerodactyl. The only thing that would survive this is Metagross and ghost pokemon, which both go down to Fire Punch (except Dusclops, which is a 2HKO.) Now, if you are crazy enough to actually attempt this, you might want to consider Rock Slide for the spread damage, because Snorlax is not going to stay around forever, even with Follow Me support. You can take a spread move, even 2 Rock Slides from banded Aerodactyl, but you will eventually go down, and flinches are your worst nightmare. One thing to note is that Psych Up pokemon could steal your attack bonus while you protect, which can be used to your and your opponent’s advantage.[/spoiler]

Since when were prizes supposed to be viable? (looking at you, doduo) Also, I disagree, considering I won a tournament with a rain team where kingdra had no hp electric.

Aren't points 1-3 solved simply by implementing the move deleter, so all clefable cup pokemon can delete all non-metronome moves from their moveset? With the move deleter, I'm not sure exactly why you would have to play in normal mode, unless you are supposed to use leppa berries from your bag after the pokemon runs out of pp (after eating its own leppa berry, ofc.)

Somebody is gonna miss a blizzard, and it won't be pretty

Darkshade: If this is how you feel about it, that's fine. However, any game I have ever played that has used a timer of this sort has had some sort of cue that you are running out of time. Why? Because they are strategical games where you totally focus on what is going on, and you may lose track of time. Having to frequently look at the timer, which in this case is small and anonymous, distracts you from actually playing the game. If you feel that a sound notification will help out people who use calculators, then I would like a visual cue. Big, red, flashing numbers or something of the sort. I'm pretty sure we can solve this problem together if we try.

IGN: PandaJJ

I am free to spend the time on my clock however I want. If I want to calc during a battle, I can, and so can you. I don't calc when I have a timer, but I should be able to do so. Stop trying to come up with reasons to shut down a good idea. EDIT: I'm also fine with a visual cue, if you think that a sound notification is somehow game-breaking.

Good point, but it still doesn't change the fact that Marowak outclasses Rhydon in almost all areas. I also want to see Dodrio in F rank, just to illustrate a point.

It would be great to see an updated list, especially Kangaskhan being A+ is very misleading (I think i requested this back in July, but this thread never had many people posting in it.) I agree with most of Rendi's changes, except Gyarados. Gyarados is still S rank, most notably because of the fact that it isn't weak to icy wind/blizzard. As far as Blastoise goes, I would perhaps go as far as ranking it A+. I also think Clefable should be at least B rank - it is almost as good as blastoise, but with a bit less bulk and lack of fake out. EDIT: After taking a closer look at the B-list, I have a couple of other changes: Rhydon to B, Marowak to B+: While Rhydon's secondary rock typing might seem to give it some advantages over Marowak, such as STAB RS and normal-resistance, these advantages are diminished by the plethora of weaknesses that comes with it. 4x weakness to grass makes it go down to anything that is supposed to counter Swampert, a fairly common pokemon. Marowak on the other hand, survives things like giga drain from Gengar. The 4x water weakness is the same story over again, while Rhydon dies to literally any water move, Marowak survives things like muddy water from Swampert or Vaporeon. Rock also comes with a nasty weakness to meteor mash and EQ, extremely common moves. On the offensive side, Marowak simply hits harder, and can do cool things like DE without taking recoil. The usage of the two pokemon also reflects this argument.

If you are talking about a discussion with players, that might be difficult. Seeing as Follow Me is exclusively used in doubles, not many people care about it. I hope that as long as there are no objections in this thread, you will take that as support from the community, since there most likely won't be many voiced opinions in either direction. I guess that doesn't really support my case, but hopefully you will know that this matters a lot the the players who care.