[Suggestion: Opponent's Ability]

3 hours ago, TohnoShiki said:

I apologize if i was not clear. But i meant, make the game warn you that the moves WILL be ineffective, not tell opponent's ability.

 

For example, the game tells you that Ground type moves won't work on Flying types. So, i thought it should say the same for Levitate Pokémon.

 

I apologize for not being clear and if i didn't understand your comment. If this idea cannot work, i'm okay with that too, as i really enjoy this game.

There are Pokemon, for example Bronzong and Bronzor, that has two viable abilities - Levitate and Heatproof. While Levitate is more common one, you could use Heatproof to catch opponent off guard. It's a legitimate strategy that comes with playing those Pokemon. Only when attacking the Pokemon, you will gain the information which one it is. That's the main reason having this effect could showcase opponent information, they should not be getting. If the game shows Ground-moves are ineffective against Bronzong for example, then you gained information it is Levitate for free, which goes against a legitimate mindgame option Bronzong user has.

 

Edit: Oh, Rache edited her earlier post so Im just repeating the points

[PLEASE Update Knock Off]

3 minutes ago, SuperBXdanielo said:

Hydreigon and garchomp spend years whitout dm and SD, Gallade also spend some months with a custom calculation in his ability. If they want to do something like giving 10 BP to outrage they will whitout worrying with anything you said, Pokemmo is a customized simulation after all. 100 BP outrage isn't even hard to calculate like Gallade 1,4× buff, it would be just a smart way to balance this move whitout adding the fairy type or making it useless

There is a big difference here. Hydreigon/Chomp had their moves removed so they wouldn't have to be pushed to Ubers, because the devs insisted that no Pokemon should be out of competitive play. Assessing a random power to a move isn't done out of similar necessity to prevent a Pokemon from going to Ubers.

 

Gallade was the first time such arbitrary numerical nerf that has been applied and if you think it didn't cause any controversy then go read even a couple of comments about that whole discussion. It opened this exact can of worms we have right now where people are suggesting random numerical adjustments to things which is just a horrible look and this is exactly many people opposed 1,3x/1,4x Gallade in that discussion.

 

Also, I'm not arguing what the devs will or will not do, I have no power over them neither do I want to have. I'm just arguing what I think makes the game look bad and what doesn't. I've always thought the 1,3x/1,4x Gallade nerf made the game's competitive look bad in that regard but in the end it's their game so they can do whatever they want.

[PLEASE Update Knock Off]

11 hours ago, caioxlive13 said:

Or develop an Stockfish to MMO battles, and start using it on ladder because against the high-rated players you has to play perfectly. A slighty innacuracy and he won. At least until now, an IA developed to calculate the best move in a battle is not against any rules since on ladder and on official tours for some reason Coaching is not forbidden. And only official tours, all unofficial ones bans coaching.

There's just so much wrong with this. You clearly have no clue how chess A.I. works and why it isn't applicable to a game like Pokemon. In chess, A.I. can use raw calculating power to calculate every reasonable line to come up with "the best possible move". In Pokemon, there's way too much variability from RNG damage ranges to secondary effects to actually playing the psychological mindgames against your opponent, which they can more easily beat if they know they are playing against a predictable computer. There is rarely in Pokemon such a thing as "undeniable best play" because you always have to make assumption of EV spreads, movesets, opponent's strategy and so on. I have no clue why you went on such a weird tangent about chess A.I. in Pokemon but please stop going any further with this, as you are not making any sense.

 

Then on the other point of discussion. Assessing random move powers to things that has no resemblance to canon games is an awful idea. It just makes the whole game look like a hissy-fit thrown by 15-year-old because in their subjective mind something in the original game wasn't right so now thousands of players have to suffer through it, while majority of the playerbase wants to play Pokemon games that at least some way resemble the original games they grew up with. That's why keeping a move with older gen mechanic is much better option than randomly coming up with your own customized power and effect that makes the whole other community just scratching their head.

[We dont want more events, we want a better game.]

I think it's slightly arrogant to imply that the things aren't the way you want them to be just because the devs "haven't studied other MMOs".

 

In short - no, this is not even intended to be some survival RPG or whatever you imagine in your head for a "Pokemon MMO" to be. This is just a way to play the core Pokemon games with your friends, and by forcing you to put some effort into getting yourself the valuables you want. That's the way this game has always been and they're not gonna change it after 12 years just for you.

[PLEASE Update Knock Off]

Knock Off is one of the most broken moves ever created. It was a gigantic mistake even on its time but we need to remember that Knock Off always existed in an era where reliably at least one Pokemon could hold an item that couldn't be knocked off. In gen 6, it was mega stones. In gen 7, it was teracrystals. Even having a somewhat reliable switch-in to Knock Off made it still stupidly broken and the most splashable move the game has ever had. Also, like Forfi said the buffed Knock Off has never existed without Fairy-type. All things put together, Knock Off is stupidly broken anyways but we're lacking the few things that can even somewhat keep it from becoming the most brainless and spammable move in the game's history. That's why it's reasonable Knock Off was never touched and updated to newer gen mechanics, unlike many other moves.

[[Doubles] PokéMMO World Championships!]

1 hour ago, ZephyrBreezy said:

the first is that even unrestricted legendary Pokémon are typically banned at first (for example, the treasures of ruin being banned from SV VGC regulation A). It pays tribute to that fact in a way.

It pays tribute to Scarlet and Violet I guess but I don't think it pays tribute to VGC historically.

 

If we look at the VGC ruleset for each game besides Scarlet & Violet in their release:

 

Spoiler

Sword and Shield (VGC2020) - The only legendaries in the original dex were the restricted legendaries Zacian and Zamazenta, so low tier legendaries didn't even exist
Ultra Sun / Ultra Moon (VGC2018) - Normal legendaries allowed (restricted legendaries banned)

Sun / Moon (VGC2017) - Tapus and Ultra Beasts allowed (there's debate if UBs are legendaries but Tapus definitely are legendaries)

OmegaRuby / AlphaSapphire (VGC2016) - Dual-restricted legendary format

X & Y (VGC2014) - Normal legendaries allowed (as long as they are within set Pokedex numbers)

Black 2 & White 2 (VGC2013) - Normal legendaries allowed (restricted legendaries banned)

Black & White (VGC2011) - Normal legendaries allowed (restricted legendaries banned)

HeartGold & SoulSilver (VGC2010) - Restricted legendaries allowed

 

So if we look historically, VGC has been very allowing for legendaries throughout its history. If anything, VGC has been known as the format where power levels are high and people who don't like it can "go play Smogon". In the end, it's your tournament so you're free to enforce the kind of rules you want but I just thought it was odd that your ruleset followed VGC ruleset exactly but not in this specific regard.

 

Lastly, I will say that I think the lack of Suicune will actually be harmful to the metagame. Swords Dance Garchomp is one of the strongest Pokemon in the game and Suicune being a bulky water-type with Icy Wind is one of the ways to keep it in check. Suicune itself is sitting on a measely 3-4% usage, being anything but overpowered. So I think restricting players from using these not-too-powerful legendary Pokemon will actually allow the strong MMO threats to become even stronger or at least have much fewer options for counterplay.

[[Doubles] PokéMMO World Championships!]

2 minutes ago, ZephyrBreezy said:

It's to pay more tribute to the official Pokémon World Championships.

 

Generally, the first regulation bans legendaries, however the second regulation legalises them in a restricted manner (allowing 1 or 2 legendaries per team), and I plan on doing a similar thing with this event. When I decide to do a second one of these, I will more than likely legalise the legendaries in a restricted manner. Plus, with the VGC ruleset, evasion clause is not a thing, and I don't think a single person wants to deal with Snow Cloak Articuno right now, especially after it won the Utrecht Special Event a few weeks ago in gen 9 VGC. 

There's a difference between restricted legendaries (the really powerful ones like Kyogre, Mewtwo, Lugia, Palkia, Reshiram, etc) and your average legendaries like Articuno-Zapdos-Moltres or Entei-Raikou-Suicune. In regards to VGC, they have never been treated the same way just for being legendaries. VGC usually calls the restricted legendaries "Special Pokemon", you can see which Pokemon count as such from here https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Special_Pokémon

 

Also VGC has (almost always) banned mythical Pokemon but that's arguably more due to accessibility than "balance". Point is that these three categories (legendaries/restricteds/mythicals) have been always treated separately and there has never been restrictions on the less powerful legendaries (unless it is due to Pokedex-restrictions).

 

I think Scarlet & Violet was the first game to begin with no legendaries as it had banned Chi-Yu/Chien-Pao/Wo-Chien/Ting-Lu from Series 1 but you could argue their power level was so significantly higher than the non-Paradox Pokemon that it was justified. But historically looking at VGC, something like legendary birds or legendary dogs have been never banned. (Only maybe Pokedex-restricted as part of a new update but not due to their power)

 

Also calling Articuno broken in MMO environment just isn't right. Articuno is absolutely awful in PokeMMO environment. The metagame is against it, it doesn't have Terastalization option. There's literally nothing to be worried about it. Zapdos is the only legendary in Top 20 most used Doubles Pokemon and even Zapdos is far away from being broken.

 

I think the only one to be canonically banned from VGC would be Shaymin as it is a Mythical Pokemon. But even for that, Mythical Pokemon have been generally banned due to being unaccessible outside of distributions events rather than being overpowered (as regular Shaymin is mid af).

 

[[Doubles] PokéMMO World Championships!]

Just curious - why are legendaries banned from this event?

[In that case, Who should win the game ?]

Whoever has their Pokemon fainted first, loses. Selfdestruct/Explosion has the user faint first, then do damage. Destiny Bond user first faints, then gets KO. That's why using those will lose you the game. If you KO, then die to Life Orb/recoil/etc. you won the game.

 

That's how it is in regular Pokemon games and there's no reason to deviate from that. There used to be a Self-KO clause for Explosion/Selfdestruct/Dbond only because the system didn't always display the winner correctly. That's why the clause was enforced.

[Introducing More Legendaries to Doubles]

2 minutes ago, Rakhmaninov said:

I'll adjust the rankings accordingly! Thanks for the in depth analysis 

Those are just my ratings, maybe better to see what others think 🙂

[Introducing More Legendaries to Doubles]

I agree that the game needs more legendary implementation as soon as possible. As you demonstrated, we still are lacking a large variety of legendaries into the game. Starting from somewhere would be very welcome.

 

I agree that The Lake Trio and the Regi trio would be the safest additions to the game. I would probably go as far as saying that their effect on MMO Doubles metagame is not going to be all that notable. From the Lake Trio, Azelf is probably the only one having some kind of theoretical niche with reasonable good Speed and Special attack and decent coverage. The Regi Trio doesn't seem all that impactful to me. Being slow and weak to Fighting kinda defaults you into a mid-tier Trick Room sweeper, at best. Justice Trio also sounds interesting, Terrakion would probably cause at least some impact on the metagame (if for nothing else, than the Beat Up Justified cheese).

 

I think I'm slightly more cautious with other legendaries compared to you, I'll go over them one by one.

 

Group 1: I really don't think we want these.

 

Spoiler

Jirachi - Incredible Pokemon all around, great typing, great moves... then you remember it has 60% STAB flinch move with 100 base speed. I agree we don't want this.

Shaymin-Sky - Less all-around good than Jirachi but also extremely unhealthy for enjoyable Doubles meta. Outspeeds practically everything and turns the game into a dice roll. Not necessarily unbeatable but makes the game so incredibly not fun.

Manaphy - Base 100s all around with Tail Glow as a move is no joke. Getting that kind of boost in 1 turn is kind of sick. Just way too much value in 1 Pokemon, I don't think it's a good addition to the game.

Genesect - That moveset, those stats with Download is just disgusting. Sure, it is yeeted by one of the most common spread moves (Heat Wave) but just too much power to be a good inclusion to the game in my opinion.

Darkrai - The biggest issue is the implementation of Dark Void. What is the interaction between Sleep Clause and dual-target Sleep move?

 

Group 2: Not necessarily broken but incredibly centralizing, to the point of being potentially obnoxious to playing experience

 

Spoiler

Landorus-I: Even without Sheer Force, Sand Force Landorus-I with these power levels is quite damn scary.

Landorus-T: Sure, it is destroyed by Ice Beam but the centralization effect on the metagame isn't fun. The fact this thing has been the face of VGC formats with much higher power levels tells how useful it is.

Deoxys-Attack: Funnily enough, not necessarily "broken" but just straight up stupid. Sure, it is very vulnerable to spread moves and priority but it just makes the whole playing experience very stupid and makes already short gameplay even shorter.

Keldeo: Just too much value in 1 Pokemon and has effectively coverage over the whole metagame with good speed.

Latios/Latias: There's just way too many ways you can lose to these, from instant Draco nukes to CM set up sweeps. Hydreigon is already good and these things are just a step up from that.

 

Group 3: Probably not broken but will become the indisputable champion in their own role

 

Spoiler

Heatran: Just insanely good Pokemon. Being weak to EQ sucks but has so many upsides and fills so many holes in a team.

Tornadus-I: Becomes so clearly the best Prankster Tailwind user that there is just no competition whatsoever.

Thundurus-I: Just an obnoxious disrupter with Prankster and TWave spam. General stats all around to give good utility. Zapdos but way more annoying. (Side note: Swagger not necessarily that strong when confusion only 33%)

Thundurus-T: Zapdos but hits harder, no Tailwind though. Also better ability.

Cresselia: The bulky Trick Room setter of the game, if it existed. You could slap it in every team. Becomes perhaps a bit too splashable.

 

 

Group 4: Strong but generally just fine for the game

 

Spoiler

Mew: Base 100s with the widest movepool in the game after Smeargle is no joke, pure-Psychic type keeps it becoming anything broken though.

Deoxys: Has the same problems as Deoxys-A but hits slightly less hard.

Tornadus-T: Generally cool mon, offensive but with Regenerator. Doesn't hit amazingly hard and has to rely on Hurricanes to do anything insanely high damage.

Meloetta: Generally just alright.

Victini: V-Create is damn scary but beyond that it has slightly awkward typing and base 100s all around isn't enough to be amazing on its own alone.

 

 

Group 5: Probably not even top tier in current Dubs

 

Spoiler

Deoxys-S: Being that fast doesn't help when you hit that little damage.

Deoxys-D: Doesn't pressurize anything

Celebi: I don't think Celebi is as awful as some people make it sound but it doesn't hit that hard and has very awkward defensive typing

Regigigas: I don't think it's good. Everyone was afraid of Slaking + Weezing and it's nowhere to be seen. Regigigas is a step up from it, sure, but it's not that much better that if Slaking never has achieved much then I don't think Regigigas can either.

Phione: Just bad.

 

[Addressing Economic Concerns and Player Morale in Pokemmo]

I don't think I have ever seen an economy-related suggestion getting everything this wrong in forums before.

 

First of all, you don't deserve getting your investments getting raised in value. Like every economic investment, it's a gamble. Based on the fact that some people have made profit with this strategy, doesn't mean you are entitled to get rewarded just for buying a vanity and holding on for it a long time.

 

The reason why vanities even have raised in value before is that (some) people have had more money than they have known where to use it for. The hint is on the name, it's a vanity item. You don't need it for anything. However, because people had more money than uses for the money, they started using that money for vanities. Because there were more and more players with too much money, people were able to ask high prices for old limited vanities.

 

The fact that even old limited vanities have lost a bit of value recently means that people actually are using Pokeyen for game-related things. From MMO economy point of view, that's a great thing. You don't want an over-inflated game because then everyone has money and the money is basically useless. You were able to see this effect a lot in GTL. Sometimes the cost of buying a ready competitive Pokemon was cheaper than making one for yourself. Breeding braces was one of the main money sinks in the game and people clearly rather than wanting to buy comps were trying to get rid of them by sometimes selling them at a net loss. Yes, part of it can also be that the bubble has burst. Everyone was investing into vanities with the expectation it "has to increase in value". Well guess what, if everyone invests with this mindset, the opposite will happen.

 

Yeah, a lot of my vanity investment have lost in value. Almost all of them recently. I'm not gonna cry about it. I can at least appreciate people have clearly some better things to do with their money now.

[Doubles Tier Discussion Request Thread]

58 minutes ago, OldRev said:

Guard Split Shuckle + Blissey give me hard times to deal with. No matter what, i am ending up lose agaisnt this match up. Any recommendations?

Perish Song

Follow Me + your own physical set up

Phasing moves like Roar/Whirlwind

A lot of Taunt

Be untouched by Chansey in the endgame and win PP stall

 

It's annoying for sure but there's ways to beat it

[Breedable PvP Reward mons but untradeable afterwards]

Full support for this suggestion. It's really frustrating for experienced players to get something that is completely worthless because wealthier players aint touching those sub-perfect mons. They can be valuable to newer players and that's fine but with this both new and older players could get at least some value out of those 4x25 2x31s.

[Pokemmo's economy]

5 hours ago, Jgaw said:

Please stop controling the gtl and thé market
It s not logic at all if someone old in the game enough to have an old vanity like 6 years ago that Really costs a fortune is like 2x or 3x a New released cosmetic
To maintain a fair equilibrium of all players i guess this should be reviewed..

 

Sounds like you're the one trying to control the market. The sales of vanities work based on free market principles. The old vanities are expensive because people are willing to pay a lot of shit for those so people can ask high prices for them.

[March 2024 Movement Discussion]

The fact people are even talking about 1,3x / 1,4x Sharpness already shows the kind of awful precedent this has set for competitive discussions, instead of agreeing that arbitrarily throwing a random number is just fundamentally a bad idea.

 

Edit: Ok fine, I'll elaborate this a bit further. Why do we must insist Gallade has to be an OU Pokemon no matter what? I have no opinion whether Gallade in OU is too much, I'm not too deep in the metagame to have a good opinion about that. This whole conversation to me just seems stupid. One day, the devs just decided we are going to give Gallade Sharpness. Maybe for their great surprise, OU metagame was not quite ready for that power and coverage just like that. If we are to decide that Gallade with Sharpness is too much for the game, why can't we revert back to the time when Gallade didn't get Sharpness? We already decided we are not going to update everything (looking at you 90 power Outrage). The problem for devs has always been "nothing should be out of use in competitive play". Removing Sharpness from Gallade would still allow Gallade to do its old usual thing in NU.

 

So, can someone explain to me why do we need Gallade in the OU tier? The point of topic seems to be is Gallade too strong or not. If it is, remove Sharpness from it. If it isn't, leave it as it is. I've already disliked when we need to forcefully keep Pokemon from going Ubers, with SD Garchomp and Draco Hydreigon. But at least, with those Pokemon the question is "Does this solve a problem, yes or no?". With Gallade, the question isn't currently "yes or no", it is "how much?". And from tiering discussion point of view, question of "how much" is just an awful discussion to have. You can move the goalposts pretty much endlessly in that discussion and there's never going to be an agreed multiplier where Gallade is supposedly okay for everybody. Also doing such weird numerical adjustments for things opens up a whole can of worms, especially if there ever is going to be another thing supposedly broken. How are we going to numerically adjust multiple points of discussion at the same time?

 

 

[New item: IVs Glasses]

1 minute ago, raulitop said:

There are sufficient money sinks. All consumable items, shiny pokemons, comp pokemons, breeding braces, berries, other permanent items, etc.

Money sinks are something that literally takes money out of the game, reducing the amount from the total playerbase and not just one player. A lot of what you mentioned is just money moving from one person to another, rather than being deducted from the game in general.

[New item: IVs Glasses]

From economic point of view, the game needs some sort of money sinks. Post-game wise, PokeBalls and breeding braces are some of the only money sinks the game has. Sure, people would have more money but with no money sinks the value of money goes down with the inflation. As a result, all collectibles, including the one you mentioned would just heavily increase in price - making the added saved money effectively useless.

[Hello, good morning. Does anyone know if they canceled the event?]

It's delayed because of the implementation of Paldean region.

[Goodbye pokemmo community]

One of the most innovative and successful players this game ever had, was nice having you here!

[The Future of PokeMMO: Player Visions and Strategies]

What comes to the PvP suggestions, you need to keep in mind that people generally don't enjoy finding out their resources are useless. What's the point of implementing legendaries that you get no use for despite some fun battles with no rewards. Many players may use a lot of resources to a legendary just to find out they can't effectively do anything with it. Same point applies to just randomly banning things to "diversify" things. People don't enjoy finding out something they used so much resources for has been banned "just for the heck of it". And this is also clearly the stance of devs as well by insisting no Pokemon should be banned to Ubers but rather complex bans should be implemented. If you want diversity, play lower tiers. If the problem is that people don't play it enough, well, people then aren't even asking that much for that diversity.

 

[I'm suprised. The contradition really caught me off guard.]

I just don't understand the "all or nothing" mentality behind either having LC "as a tier" or completely nuking it from the game. Was LC representation notably lower than other lower tiers? Yep. Was LC taken less seriously by the general playerbase? It seems that way. But why was the solution to remove it from the game completely, though? I understand the smaller representation but what's wrong with recognizing LC a gimmick tier in comparison to OU/UU/NU/Dubs and give it slightly smaller representation in the scheduling calendar? Why would it be bad to host at least occasionally a tournament here and there to give LC enthusiasts something to do and something to build for?

 

 

[February 2024 Movement Discussion]

2 hours ago, Rakhmaninov said:

Very grateful for this, it would give the doubles metagame a good shake up, zapdos+garchomp are going to be even more popular than they already are...

 

Shaymin Sky may be a bit too much for the doubles meta at the moment - STAB serene grace seed flare and air slash make it really deadly in the right hands. It does however get walled by zapdos, and metagross unless it runs earth power

 

@OrangeManiac thoughts on this?

Swords Dance never deserved to be removed from Garchomp to begin with, in regards to Doubles. In the current state of the meta, Swords Dance Garchomp would become an absolute game changer. Garchomp is already strong but Intimidates have always been its main downfall. Now that it can boost more than getting affected by Intimidate in a turn, teambuilding will completely change. That being said, for the life of me, I can't call it broken because it's a mon that literally gets crippled by one of the most common speed control moves in the game (Icy Wind). So people would just shift counter Chomp from Intimidates to Icy Wind and I think that's probably fine.

 

While I thought that Hydreigon having access to Draco is actually mandatory for healthy Doubles metagame (to punish mindless set up, but also the -2 drawback is massive for future turns), I don't think the game needs SD Garchomp. But in all honesty, Garchomp never deserved to have its Swords Dance removed from Doubles point of view.

 

What comes to Shaymin-Sky...

 

I know you all like to complain how relevant flinches are in Doubles. You remember those moments when a Tyranitar Rock Slide or Togekiss flinch decided the game. Anyone who has played more than 10 games of Doubles has experienced this. Then we remember Tyranitar and Togekiss are actually some of the slowest Pokemon in the entire metagame outspeeding barely half of the metagame and they still have such a huge effect on the game with their flinch moves.

 

With Shaymin-Sky, you have a Pokemon that essentially outspeeds the entire metagame besides Crobat with 60% chance to flinch its target. You have essentially a Scarf Togekiss, on steroids, without the drawback of being locked to a Choice Item. Oh and if that wasn't bad enough, you have a Serene Grace boosted Seed Flare that is basically always guaranteed to go first. Practically a Fake Tears 80% of the time, that also does 120 STAB damage. Neat. All in all, just absolutely no, it makes the whole gameplay an absolute meme that we do not need or want.

[Rat Kid's Arrival (Saturday, 2nd December)]

He did it

[November 2023-Movement Discussion]

There's probably not a single Pokemon in the game that the Recover PP nerf hurt more than Milotic. 8 PP instead of 16 makes Milotic incredibly short term option to so many things, especially the Flame Orb set. Milotic needs multiple Recovers to "recover" from the damage (pun maybe intended) it takes from switching in against anything. It might consume 3-4 PP by just even Recovering to full and countering the Pokemon it was supposed to counter. But if you're wasting half of your PP by countering a Pokemon once, you're hardly a "counter" to begin with.