codylramey

Will you make mexico pay for it?

Okay... you wouldnt go into a suspect test thread and use the argument "well you can scout to see if your opponent has one then run the counter if it does" better? You are actually right about this, i misrepresented my point in the last post because i was on a 15 min break from work and was on my phone while typing it. I was also grocery shopping too. Anyway you are 100% right about this, counter teams are rarely formed by accident. Which means that if we can limit scouting then we wont have to worry about being counter teamed and everyone can show their skill in the game by simply building a solid team and play it well.

yea for that round those pokemon are good choices, but not overall. You wouldnt go into a viability thread and argue for a change based off from what you just scouted. Any team can be counter teamed but only if you get scouted. The odds that you just so happen to be counter teamed by a guy who was just trying to build an overall good team are very high.

Im not argueing pointless semantics. You are using problems with our meta as an excuse for keeping scouting. You straight out said that scouting is a part of the meta which is 100% wrong. Its a poor even destructive argument. I said that i use offensive in unranked, idt i said i win 50% of the time, if i did i lied bc i win much more than that. But that is irrelevant because scouting has nothing to do with the meta. You didnt really offer up any other arguments in ur wall so i am going to repeat this SCOUTING HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE META. That means that the viability of any given pokemon or playstyle has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

So i have been playing hyper offensive for unranked recently, its fun and you either lose fast or win fast so its great for unranked, and i have noticed something. When playing with a hyper offensive team it is hard to get to know your opponents team. Therefore it is hard to know what to sac and what to keep. Threats like gyaradose and aero can crush a hyper offensive team if played right therefor if they are saved for a surprise measure at the end it can be devastating no matter how much you dominate the field. I feel like team preview would help mend this. But then again one upside to hyper O is that people in general do not expect it and figure that once one or two sweepers are down they only have a defensive core to break. Team preview would deff ruin that. What do you guys think?

It is NOT a part of the meta. Wtf dude. If it was a part of the meta then we could say things like "well dugtrio isnt uncompetitive because you could just scout for him" Arent you apart of the tier counsel? How could you be trying to make this argument? It is a part of the tournament system only because we havent developed it enough to completely get rid of it, which it is probably impossible to 100% get rid of it but that doesnt mean we shouldnt try to get rid of as much of it as we possibly can. Again you are complaining about the meta, which scouting has NOTHING to do with. If you want to try and claim that it does then provide supporting arguments. But remember you are/were apart of the tier counsel so dont say anything stupid because it can and will be used against you in comp alley. Scouting should never be taken into consideration when talking about the meta so it is not apart of the meta. If we find the tier too defensive then we have an unhealthy tier, and the argument "well if you scout and the player is running the right team then you can run offense therefore the meta is not too defensive" would never fly in a meta discussion. Seriously dude stop with this argument, its ridiculous. Are you kidding me? Ive seen matches last over an hour, which is a significant amount of time, and those people were heavily scouted by their opponents while they only get 10 min to scout and make a team. Ofc you can argue its their fault they made the match last that long but why would you want to make them have this disadvantage because they had to pull out all of the stops, including pp stall, in order to win. If we had randomized brackets then it wouldnt matter that they got heavily scouted because it would be too risky to try and build against them unless it was the semi finials. No thats called being opportunistic, there is a difference between that and skill. Real skill is having the ability to build a team, or multiple teams, that can handle a wide variety of threats and having the skill to play them properly. Ofc you should go into a tournament with the capability to change up your team. This is not only because of scouting but because you will face the same people who have already seen at least one of your teams in the past. You have no idea their capabilities when it comes to remembering you and how you play. This forces you to constantly evolve as a comp player. But that does not mean that we shouldnt try and get rid of scouting as much as possible when we are able to. I didnt not say you should scout the hell out of people in tournaments. I said if you want to do your homework, meaning watch tournaments from the past with the replay feature, then more power to you. That shows a real dedication to the comp scene. But scouting someone because you know you are going to play them next round is not the same as what i just mentioned. Its not skillful. It is opportunistic but opportunistic =/= good or competitive. It is something that should be nerfed as much as we possibly can because true competition is had when both players go into it with little knowledge of what to expect from the other person and the true test of skill comes when you are forced to build a team that can handle most anything your opponent throws at you and you make plays to do just that. Getting rid of replays during tournaments and randomizing the brackets is a great way of making that happen. It does not solve the issue 100% but i think it will be enough to make tournaments much more competitive than they are now.

Youre issue with offense not being viable unless you scout is an issue with the meta and has nothing to do with scouting. Scouting does not make offense more viable, it only makes it usable when you know what your opponent is running. That is a terrible point to try and make. Its not "unfair" to new players, scouting is "unfair" to anyone who doesnt have the time or people to do it. Idt i actually called it unfair, my main point is that it is not good for competition. Also viewing replays after a tourny is fine, if someone wants to do homework on someone after a tourny to get a edge on the competition then thats fine, THAT is where the creativity from the other person will come from. But having the ability to do it during a tourny makes scouting easier. And scouting is not competitive. You should have to beat your opponent because you built a strong team and out played him, not because you knew what threats to expect and built accordingly. Also experience and replay scouting are not the same thing. You can gain experience w/o replays just by playing in tournies over n over. Youll see the same people, their teams, and play styles which will better prepare you for what they can do. But gaining experience and not relying on scouting will force you to be much more conservative with your decisions on how to take him on because its much easier to change up the way you play in between tournies because you know people have seen your teams in the past and how they than it is to change up the way you play in the middle of a tourny because your next opponent scouted you.

Zebra the point of team building is to try and build a team that can face all kinds of teams and playstyle. It is not to know what your opponent is most likely going to run and act accordingly. Nitch pokes like trapinch are suppose to come with the risk of being useless. You should not be able to run it only when you know someone is running chansey, unless you have played this person enough to know he/she likes chansey, in which case thats called experience and there is nothing wrong with that.

I have a problem with scouting and anything that makes it easier w/o a huge upside to it. And replays during tounaments fits that description.

How tall are you raaidn?

I want to make scouting incredibly more difficult to impossible. If you noticed i, and others, not only mentioned taking out replays during tournaments but changing the way the bracket is displayed so it becomes impossible to know who you are going to go against in the earlier matches. This doesnt help against late match scouting (semi finals and finals) but for most of the tournament you wont know who to scout and you wont know who you are against until you are playing them.

Dude... Thats fucking will power.

Zebra youre really making my head hurt. Why can you not just accept that people dont like scouting? They think that it takes away from the competitiveness of the game and most of the people who do it only do it so that they dont fall behind the others who do it. Most comp players are on here arguing against scouting with an argument that basically is that it sets people on an uneven playing ground, which it does because just because "anybody can scout" those on teams can do it much more effectively than those with out and those who finishes a match early can scout much more of their opponents match than those who do not so there will ALWAYS be uneven ground with scouting, while you are pulling out fallacy after fallacy to make your argument.

The only problems with this is that there could be holes in your team you need to compensate for. I know i will find holes in my team sometimes and have to change up next round. I could see this working if you were allowed to register like 6 different teams or something. Then the only way you can counter team is by picking the best team you had already registered for the tourny and go with that.

I remember a tournament where i had to wait a long time for my opponent to come face me. Why did i have to wait a long time? Was my opponent in another match? No actually he was done with his match before me, so what was he doing? He was watching the person he would most likely face next in the line up battle. Adding replay capability makes this 100 times easier, especially if you can skip turns n such (idk what replay is actually like). If you... erm... i mean my opponent at that tourny had started spectating in the middle of the match then he wouldnt have his opponents whole team. But given 10 min btwn rounds and replay capabilities then getting the entire team becomes a lot easier. Having replays during tournies just gives scouter another tool to use to scout. And scouting is not healthy for a competitive game. You should not be able to get the drop on your opponent because you scouted them. Especially since the person you are scouting probably didnt get to scout you. That starts the match off on an uneven playing ground right there. A truly competitive match would be one that both opponents start on as even of a playing ground as their skills allow them to be. So lets not give people any more tools to make that not happen. Scouting is not apart of pokemon, and even if it was it doesnt make it good. Salamence is apart of pokemon, does that mean we should be able to use him in all tournaments? Hell tiers arent apart of pokemon and we use them to make the game more competitive. So that argument is in no way shape or form valid. If we can do something to make the game more competitive then we should as long as it doesnt disproportionately negatively effect another aspect of the game. Taking away replays during tournies, and using the semi blind bracket system i suggested above accomplishes just that.

I gave a suggestion that nerfs the ability to scout w/o nerfing peoples ability to know what is going on in the middle of the tournament (which was the only good argument against secrete bracket). There has yet to be a good argument for not nerfing scouting, b-b-but other games has scouting is a bad argumet, and there is a good argument for nerfing scouting.

Dont get me wrong marchmaking is amazing and is the reason im even on like i am recently. But swee scent is the reason i am willing to make new comps at a decent pace. And that is very exciting to me.

Wouldnt it be better if you could just manually adjust prices while your stuff is in the gtl?

Is it just me or does this seem like one of the best features to come out in a very long time.

bump

In sports you cant counter team. Thats a bad comparison.

Bidding starts at 400k

yea that makes sense i guess. The last one i was at idt we filled 32

Have the past match ups listed but not in the order they appear in the bracket. Therefore we will know who has fought who but not be able to know who is going to fight next. How is hiding replays discouraging to spectators? They can still spectate matches as they happen. Thats all we had before. Knowing who is in the tournament will tell you if there could be any interesting match ups in the future. If i go to an OU tournament and kingbowser, fraggs, raiidn, are all in it i can be fairly sure two of those guys are going to fight eventually. And it does prevent scouting, not 100% but enough to where it would be worth it. If you dont know who you are facing next counterteaming at the very least becomes impossible.

What is? Hiding the bracket or delaying the replay until after the tourny is over? And how so?