Rakhmaninov

Yeah it's a great thread! But it does need updating with the new sets, like assault vest etc

Not sure how much viability shiftry gets with wind rider in doubles, I feel it's still outclassed by serperior as a grass type, and it now also competes with tailwind shaymin for viability Having said that, draco hydreigon is also big for doubles!

Good thread! Might start one for doubles

Very excited for Hydreigon Draco Meteor to come back to doubles!!

Totally possible! Just be careful that in your team building, weezing's ability doesn't hinder the rest of your Pokémon

Thank you @OrangeManiac 😊

(didn't mean to post twice oops)

Metagross -> S Tier

Updated with suicune & politoed teams

Changes 14/08/2023 Politoed: A+ Suicune: A Ninetails: B Potential Additions: Raikou: B+ Entei B+ (with inner focus it becomes A+)

Looking forward to seeing Garchomp make a come back if clear amulet is implemented. Give it substitute to prevent it from being burned, and you've got a very powerful Pokémon. Tyranitar/scizor/garchomp cores would be very powerful!

Other Field Effects A turn counter would also be nice for: - Light Screen / Reflect - Tailwind - Trick Room

Adrenaline Orb might also be a good idea if intimidate is such a big threat in doubles, and would cause a more minor shift in the metagame than clear amulet. Competitive Milotic would definitely be a popular user

I wonder, if sleep clause is easy enough to remove, whether it would be the most interesting change to the dubs metagame? Any more thoughts?

Because the doubles metagame isn't split into tiers (although DOU/DUU might still be on the cards for discussion!), every once in a while it needs to be struck with a major challenge that everyone needs to adapt to, in order for the metagame to be revivified. If sleep clause were removed, we would see: - a massive uptick in amoonguss - lum berry on everything - possible gravity+hypnosis/sleep powder teams - set up/sun/trick room teams everywhere - torkoal+venusaur would be much scarier Would it be worth risking these things to shake up the doubles metagame? And if it gets too bad, then we can always just request for sleep clause to be turned back on!

Although I completely agree that this would be an amazing addition to the doubles metagame, the trouble is trying to convince the developers to code for an item that would only affect a minor metagame, as you say, with only a few niche options in singles. So aside from satey goggles, my question is: should the sleep clause be reconsidered altogether given the increase in viable grass types?

Well said!

Doubles Sample Teams As doubles is quite a difficult metagame to get into, sample teams are a great way to initially engage with the metagame! Please feel free to offer criticism to these teams, as there may be optimisations that I've missed out. The aim for this thread is to provide archetypal teams, in other words, teams which set out a primary model or "paradigm" within the metagame which must be considered when crafting a team. Where possible, I have used EV spreads of 252/252/4 to avoid confusion, in order to prioritise EV & IV distribution when breeding & training on a budget. Team #1: Tailwind Perhaps the most common and successful team currently (owing to usage statistics), this team aim to cover all bases, ensuring a well-rounded match-up against all opponents. Difficulty: ★★★★☆ Metagame Matchup: ★★★★☆ Team #2: Rain This team is the reason why controlling the weather war is so important in doubles. Without a weather mode of your own, rain is a force to be reckoned with. An attractive team for trainers who prefer hyper offense. Be careful how you conserve Pelipper, however, as this team heavily depends on rain set up to work well. Difficulty: ★★★☆☆ Metagame Matchup: ★★★☆☆ Team #3: Set Up A deadly team in the hands of a skilled player, at the expense of being very predictable. Watch out for opposing follow me+imprison Togekiss! N.B. The Togekiss EVs give it a n+1 SpD stat with Calm nature; the speed EVs also allow it to outspeed 0 Spe base 81s like Gyarados and Milotic. Difficulty: ★★☆☆☆ Metagame Matchup: ★★★☆☆ Team #4: Suicune & Serperior With the exciting new addition of Suicune, and with Serperior's Contrary ability, this team aims to enable a reliable set up, with enough variability to not depend on setting up either pokemon. Difficulty: ★★★★☆ Metagame Matchup: ★★★★☆ Team #5: RainRoom A flexible trick room team, offering a strong trick room offense, as well as a rain mode. Difficulty: ★★★★☆ Metagame Matchup: ★★★☆☆ Again, please offer any criticism you may have, and let me know what you think! Feel free to message me if you would like some advice for building your own teams, I'm very happy to help! Thanks for reading :))

Watch out for a new thread soon...

For Doubles, check out my teambuilding frameworks guide:

Hey PrinBruce! Please feel free to check out my doubles guides linked in my signature (visible if you're viewing on PC), and do send me any team ideas if you want me to help out with team building! Arcanine is a fantastic Assault Gear user, and is a very good counter to Serperior. You'll want a moveset containing moves like flare blitz, extreme speed and snarl, with a coverage move such as close combat, or even wild charge. Adamant nature is pretty good for a bulky attacker like Arcanine, so perhaps a 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe set is a decent starting place. It's worth checking out my speed tiers guide for a better speed investment. But that's basically what I'd recommend for Arcanine! Let me know what you think!

I disagree, I don't think having both excadrill and metagross on the same team is the best idea, you expose both ground and fire weaknesses without adding much in return However, this is a similar team that I've seen quite consistently nowadays: Crobat @ Flying Gem Ability: Inner Focus EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe Jolly Nature - Acrobatics - Tailwind - Taunt - Protect/Haze Tyranitar @ Chople Berry Ability: Sand Stream EVs: 212 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Spe Adamant Nature - Rock Slide - Crunch - Superpower - Protect Rotom-Wash @ Sitrus Berry Ability: Levitate EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe Modest Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Thunderbolt - Hydro Pump - Nasty Plot/Will-O-Wisp - Protect Hydreigon @ Leftovers Ability: Levitate EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe Modest Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Dragon Pulse - Snarl/Nasty Plot - Heat Wave/Flamethrower - Protect Metagross @ Assault Vest/Leftovers Ability: Clear Body EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Spe Adamant Nature - Meteor Mash/Bullet Punch - Zen Headbutt - Earthquake - Bullet Punch/Protect Hitmontop (M) @ Fighting Gem Ability: Intimidate EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe Adamant Nature - Fake Out - Close Combat - Feint - Wide Guard

If you want some help, feel free to send me your team ideas and I'll critique them for you :)) Also, all my doubles content is linked in my signature (if you're viewing this on pc)

From @OrangeManiacon Discord "Some top players have been taking a liking of Sableye. It's not impossible to see why, priority Will-o-Wisp and Quash are pretty damn threatening moves. Sableye also has amazing pool of other support moves as well, Fake Out, Sunny Day, Helping Hand, Taunt, Feint... honestly you name it. While its offensively nothing amazing, STAB Foul Play is usually just enough to make sure it can do something on the field. Obviously, the biggest drawback to Sableye is its poor stat total. While this doesnt make Sableye useless, it is difficult to justify using it over, lets say, more "well-rounded" options. I've noticed with good play, Sableye can be made quite powerless and there's just some matchups where it doesnt do a lot. I think it has very solid potential and can be a very disruptive Pokemon in the right team. I think it's B/B+ category, I'm personally more inclined towards B but I think there's people in this game who could easily call it B+. Murkrow is... underwhelming. I just have a very tough time justifying using it in any serious team in this metagame. While Murkrow has been a very powerful Pokemon in VGC, PokeMMO Doubles is a rather hostile metagame towards it. Spamming Foul Play doesn't get you far if you have nothing else going for it and even in its main niche, priority Tailwind and Haze, it is heavily outclassed by Crobat. Crobat is far more pressurizing, can also carry Haze (and set up teams rarely carry Tailwind, or make good use of it) so you can achieve everything with Crobat in my opinion. The only case where Crobat in theory is inferior is that if opponent has their Tailwind up, Murkrow is guaranteed to go first regardless while Crobat necessarily cant... but in every other aspect Crobat outshines it so heavily. Even if we were to sell Murkrow's Prankster Tailwind, I would argue its worse than Whimsicott. Very situational cases where it's the best, Im inclined to say "C" but maybe B- isnt too much of a stretch. Actually, I'll take that back I think Murkrow is a C rank at its best. I think someone might ask "why is Sableye so much better than Murkrow" and I think the biggest different is priority Will-o-Wisp, which is actually such a crippling effect on one's team and forces someone to pivot around heavily to avoid it. That alone makes Sableye highly viable and reasonable to use while Murkrow in my opinion is very niche."

Sableye added to B Currently there is no C Tier so Murkrow hasn't been added