Rakhmaninov
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Posts posted by Rakhmaninov
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1. Is Terrakion a suitable addition to the current metagame? Should it be A Tier not A+ Tier?
2. If Dark Void is banned, where would Darkrai be on the rankings?
3. How well would a team with both Slaking and Regigigas work with reactive gas users?
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On 3/20/2024 at 7:11 PM, OrangeManiac said:
I agree that the game needs more legendary implementation as soon as possible. As you demonstrated, we still are lacking a large variety of legendaries into the game. Starting from somewhere would be very welcome.
I agree that The Lake Trio and the Regi trio would be the safest additions to the game. I would probably go as far as saying that their effect on MMO Doubles metagame is not going to be all that notable. From the Lake Trio, Azelf is probably the only one having some kind of theoretical niche with reasonable good Speed and Special attack and decent coverage. The Regi Trio doesn't seem all that impactful to me. Being slow and weak to Fighting kinda defaults you into a mid-tier Trick Room sweeper, at best. Justice Trio also sounds interesting, Terrakion would probably cause at least some impact on the metagame (if for nothing else, than the Beat Up Justified cheese).
I think I'm slightly more cautious with other legendaries compared to you, I'll go over them one by one.
Group 1: I really don't think we want these.
Jirachi - Incredible Pokemon all around, great typing, great moves... then you remember it has 60% STAB flinch move with 100 base speed. I agree we don't want this.
Shaymin-Sky - Less all-around good than Jirachi but also extremely unhealthy for enjoyable Doubles meta. Outspeeds practically everything and turns the game into a dice roll. Not necessarily unbeatable but makes the game so incredibly not fun.
Manaphy - Base 100s all around with Tail Glow as a move is no joke. Getting that kind of boost in 1 turn is kind of sick. Just way too much value in 1 Pokemon, I don't think it's a good addition to the game.
Genesect - That moveset, those stats with Download is just disgusting. Sure, it is yeeted by one of the most common spread moves (Heat Wave) but just too much power to be a good inclusion to the game in my opinion.
Darkrai - The biggest issue is the implementation of Dark Void. What is the interaction between Sleep Clause and dual-target Sleep move?
Group 2: Not necessarily broken but incredibly centralizing, to the point of being potentially obnoxious to playing experience
Landorus-I: Even without Sheer Force, Sand Force Landorus-I with these power levels is quite damn scary.
Landorus-T: Sure, it is destroyed by Ice Beam but the centralization effect on the metagame isn't fun. The fact this thing has been the face of VGC formats with much higher power levels tells how useful it is.
Deoxys-Attack: Funnily enough, not necessarily "broken" but just straight up stupid. Sure, it is very vulnerable to spread moves and priority but it just makes the whole playing experience very stupid and makes already short gameplay even shorter.
Keldeo: Just too much value in 1 Pokemon and has effectively coverage over the whole metagame with good speed.
Latios/Latias: There's just way too many ways you can lose to these, from instant Draco nukes to CM set up sweeps. Hydreigon is already good and these things are just a step up from that.
Group 3: Probably not broken but will become the indisputable champion in their own role
Heatran: Just insanely good Pokemon. Being weak to EQ sucks but has so many upsides and fills so many holes in a team.
Tornadus-I: Becomes so clearly the best Prankster Tailwind user that there is just no competition whatsoever.
Thundurus-I: Just an obnoxious disrupter with Prankster and TWave spam. General stats all around to give good utility. Zapdos but way more annoying. (Side note: Swagger not necessarily that strong when confusion only 33%)
Thundurus-T: Zapdos but hits harder, no Tailwind though. Also better ability.
Cresselia: The bulky Trick Room setter of the game, if it existed. You could slap it in every team. Becomes perhaps a bit too splashable.
Group 4: Strong but generally just fine for the game
Mew: Base 100s with the widest movepool in the game after Smeargle is no joke, pure-Psychic type keeps it becoming anything broken though.
Deoxys: Has the same problems as Deoxys-A but hits slightly less hard.
Tornadus-T: Generally cool mon, offensive but with Regenerator. Doesn't hit amazingly hard and has to rely on Hurricanes to do anything insanely high damage.
Meloetta: Generally just alright.
Victini: V-Create is damn scary but beyond that it has slightly awkward typing and base 100s all around isn't enough to be amazing on its own alone.
Group 5: Probably not even top tier in current Dubs
Deoxys-S: Being that fast doesn't help when you hit that little damage.
Deoxys-D: Doesn't pressurize anything
Celebi: I don't think Celebi is as awful as some people make it sound but it doesn't hit that hard and has very awkward defensive typing
Regigigas: I don't think it's good. Everyone was afraid of Slaking + Weezing and it's nowhere to be seen. Regigigas is a step up from it, sure, but it's not that much better that if Slaking never has achieved much then I don't think Regigigas can either.
Phione: Just bad.
Edited the rankings accordingly
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1 minute ago, OrangeManiac said:
Those are just my ratings, maybe better to see what others think 🙂
Imagine mew with fake out support+transform so there's two set up sweepers on the field... Ouch
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1 hour ago, OrangeManiac said:
I agree that the game needs more legendary implementation as soon as possible. As you demonstrated, we still are lacking a large variety of legendaries into the game. Starting from somewhere would be very welcome.
I agree that The Lake Trio and the Regi trio would be the safest additions to the game. I would probably go as far as saying that their effect on MMO Doubles metagame is not going to be all that notable. From the Lake Trio, Azelf is probably the only one having some kind of theoretical niche with reasonable good Speed and Special attack and decent coverage. The Regi Trio doesn't seem all that impactful to me. Being slow and weak to Fighting kinda defaults you into a mid-tier Trick Room sweeper, at best. Justice Trio also sounds interesting, Terrakion would probably cause at least some impact on the metagame (if for nothing else, than the Beat Up Justified cheese).
I think I'm slightly more cautious with other legendaries compared to you, I'll go over them one by one.
Group 1: I really don't think we want these.
Jirachi - Incredible Pokemon all around, great typing, great moves... then you remember it has 60% STAB flinch move with 100 base speed. I agree we don't want this.
Shaymin-Sky - Less all-around good than Jirachi but also extremely unhealthy for enjoyable Doubles meta. Outspeeds practically everything and turns the game into a dice roll. Not necessarily unbeatable but makes the game so incredibly not fun.
Manaphy - Base 100s all around with Tail Glow as a move is no joke. Getting that kind of boost in 1 turn is kind of sick. Just way too much value in 1 Pokemon, I don't think it's a good addition to the game.
Genesect - That moveset, those stats with Download is just disgusting. Sure, it is yeeted by one of the most common spread moves (Heat Wave) but just too much power to be a good inclusion to the game in my opinion.
Darkrai - The biggest issue is the implementation of Dark Void. What is the interaction between Sleep Clause and dual-target Sleep move?
Group 2: Not necessarily broken but incredibly centralizing, to the point of being potentially obnoxious to playing experience
Landorus-I: Even without Sheer Force, Sand Force Landorus-I with these power levels is quite damn scary.
Landorus-T: Sure, it is destroyed by Ice Beam but the centralization effect on the metagame isn't fun. The fact this thing has been the face of VGC formats with much higher power levels tells how useful it is.
Deoxys-Attack: Funnily enough, not necessarily "broken" but just straight up stupid. Sure, it is very vulnerable to spread moves and priority but it just makes the whole playing experience very stupid and makes already short gameplay even shorter.
Keldeo: Just too much value in 1 Pokemon and has effectively coverage over the whole metagame with good speed.
Latios/Latias: There's just way too many ways you can lose to these, from instant Draco nukes to CM set up sweeps. Hydreigon is already good and these things are just a step up from that.
Group 3: Probably not broken but will become the indisputable champion in their own role
Heatran: Just insanely good Pokemon. Being weak to EQ sucks but has so many upsides and fills so many holes in a team.
Tornadus-I: Becomes so clearly the best Prankster Tailwind user that there is just no competition whatsoever.
Thundurus-I: Just an obnoxious disrupter with Prankster and TWave spam. General stats all around to give good utility. Zapdos but way more annoying. (Side note: Swagger not necessarily that strong when confusion only 33%)
Thundurus-T: Zapdos but hits harder, no Tailwind though. Also better ability.
Cresselia: The bulky Trick Room setter of the game, if it existed. You could slap it in every team. Becomes perhaps a bit too splashable.
Group 4: Strong but generally just fine for the game
Mew: Base 100s with the widest movepool in the game after Smeargle is no joke, pure-Psychic type keeps it becoming anything broken though.
Deoxys: Has the same problems as Deoxys-A but hits slightly less hard.
Tornadus-T: Generally cool mon, offensive but with Regenerator. Doesn't hit amazingly hard and has to rely on Hurricanes to do anything insanely high damage.
Meloetta: Generally just alright.
Victini: V-Create is damn scary but beyond that it has slightly awkward typing and base 100s all around isn't enough to be amazing on its own alone.
Group 5: Probably not even top tier in current Dubs
Deoxys-S: Being that fast doesn't help when you hit that little damage.
Deoxys-D: Doesn't pressurize anything
Celebi: I don't think Celebi is as awful as some people make it sound but it doesn't hit that hard and has very awkward defensive typing
Regigigas: I don't think it's good. Everyone was afraid of Slaking + Weezing and it's nowhere to be seen. Regigigas is a step up from it, sure, but it's not that much better that if Slaking never has achieved much then I don't think Regigigas can either.
Phione: Just bad.
I'll adjust the rankings accordingly! Thanks for the in depth analysis
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2 hours ago, PKTxKharma said:
If we release some S legendary, shaymin sky form would be at least A but not S to be fair, some terrorist set with parax things but honnestly on the S tier there's more stronger mon
regigigas sucks in double with his ability,
thundurus both form are strong af but the normal with prankster would be annoying af with tailwind/rain+twave as well and can hit hard
Rain archetype will become more strong as it already dominate on smogon meta, will be maybe less powerfull as weather doesn't stay forever
and dunno feel like deoxys attack form might be bann worth or release at last
and for the god sake , if thundurus is in the game, make a suspct test for swagger moveRegigigas+weezing is a pretty lethal combo...
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1 hour ago, RysPicz said:
Deoxys-D and Deoxys-S are B tier along with Celebi and Phione? In which universe? xd
Okay I'll move them up ahahaha
Wrote this pretty quick and thought they were just a bit worse than stuff like cresselia and darkrai
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Hi everyone!
As we've seen the release of legendary pokemon such as Zapdos, Suicune and Shaymin, the Doubles metagame has quickly developed into a much more interesting format than the bland and boring metagame that it was before.
In this thread I'd like to discuss other potentially interesting legendary Pokemon which would be interesting additions to the format, without making it too unbalanced.
I hope this can provide the developers with some insights into nurturing a balanced and interesting metagame.
Please provide feedback and criticism in the comments!
Roaming Legendary Trios
The addition of the legendary birds (Zapdos, Articuno & Moltres) and beasts (Suicune, Raikou & Entei) suggest that more roaming legendaries might be introduced in future!
So how would each legendary roaming trio affect the metagame?
The Lake Trio
Probably the safest legendaries to add next, Azelf in particular would be an interesting lead with stealth rock+explosion. Uxie would also make quite a valuable trick room setter. Mesprit is the weakest of the three, and can be easily dealt with by common doubles threats.
The Regi Trio
Along with the Lake Trio, the 3 Regis would be great additions to doubles. Registeel would be a particularly interesting steel type addition. Assault Vest Regirock might also be an interesting choice, with its 80/200/100 base defenses.
The Justice Trio
Terrakion is probably a bit too powerful to add right now. Virizion and Coballion are up for debate, and would definitely make for potential additions in the future. However, Beat Up+Justified combos would be a pain to deal with, forcing players to use strategies such as a follow me user in order to deal with it. A powerful trio with a lot of potential in the future...
Legendary Rankings
(Not Including Title Legendaries)
Ban-Worthy
S Tier
A bit too powerful right now, these would change the metagame, but would make interesting additions in the future!
A+ Tier
These legendary pokemon are on the borderline, they're a bit too powerful right now, but not quite as powerful as S Tier
A Tier
These would cause a power-creep in the metagame, but can be handled by existing Pokemon
B Tier
Suitable to add, with a small impact on the metagame
C Tier
Weak and useless
What do you think?
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5 minutes ago, OldRev said:
I can easly say that second team has some serious issues. This team is very lacking with fire and ice moves. It should be remain as a teory team.Thank you for the criticism! Yes I agree it has some issues, for example it doesn't handle Gastrodon very well, and would benefit from a Pokemon such as Hydreigon with snarl, which also adds extra fire coverage with heat wave, at the expense of a third ice weakness. Alternatively, Rotom can use Hidden Power Grass to handle Gastrodon. Metagross could also add ice coverage with Ice Punch, and likewise Zapdos could add ice coverage with Hidden Power Ice instead of discharge.
Aside from a lack of coverage, here's something else to think about - the team has perfect type synergy:
It's very difficult to find a team with a "perfect 6", so please feel free to experiment with the Pokemon that are being used, with the goal of finding a team which suits your play style best.
To recap, here's the flow-chart @OrangeManiac suggested:
1. Garchomp
2. Togekiss or Zapdos
3. Rotom-Wash/Rotom-Heat
4. Steel Type
5. (Filler)
6. (Filler)
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48 minutes ago, TohnR said:
Dude, I never play doubles but the quality of your work alongside Orange's is truly impressive !
Thank you!
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8 hours ago, Wolfgangerl said:
Thank you for this guide Sir.
Your posts are helping me a lot as I'm trying to learn to play this format that looks fun to play once you understand it 🙂
I wish you a nice week!!
No worries! Send me your team ideas if you want some help with building!
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Added a Zapdos+Garchomp team for context
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How To Use Swords Dance Garchomp
Introduction
The reintroduction of Swords Dance Garchomp is one of the most exciting additions to the Doubles metagame in years.
It's been over 3 years since Garchomp was able to boost its attack stat to insane levels, so the return of Swords Dance will likely be a metagame changer in Double battles.
So I thought I'd write this little guide as an introduction to how to use Garchomp, for those who are new to the format!
Sample Set:
Garchomp @ Yache Berry / Life Orb / Leftovers / Focus Sash
Ability: Sand Veil / Rough Skin
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- ProtectImportable:
SpoilerGarchomp @ Yache Berry
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- ProtectThis is most likely what most players will use on Garchomp, optimising speed and power with a Jolly Nature, so that it can win the speed tie against opposing Garchomp.
The choice of item is probably the most flexible option, and depends on your preference or team structure. Yache Berry will help against ice moves, such as Abomasnow Blizzard or Mamoswine's Icicle Crash. Watch out for Ice Shard though, as it will be able to take out Garchomp once it has lost protection from the Yache Berry. Yache Berry also provides temporary protection from the very common Ice Beam, Icy Wind and Hidden Power [Ice], which also threaten Garchomp. Alternatively, Life Orb will offer consistent increased damage output in exchange for frailty, and leftovers will offer consistent recovery. Garchomp has very good bulk (108/95/85) so leftovers recovery is useful, but it also has a crushing 4x weakness to ice, so it's up to you to choose an item that benefits it best. Focus Sash might appear to be a strange choice at first given Garchomp's high defenses, but the more the metagame adjusts to Garchomp's presence, the more 1-shot moves will become prevalent, so Focus Sash may be useful to ensure a guaranteed swords-dance-boosted hit.
Other options
Other options for items include Haban Berry for tanking opposing dragon types (such as Garchomp), Rocky Helmet for extra Rough Skin damage, or Dragon/Ground Gems for a quick burst of power. Again, the choice of item will depend on your team structure and your own personal preference! Garchomp can also be used as a Stealth Rock setter if you don't want to use Swords Dance, which works very nicely in teams which don't revolve around it setting up as a win condition.
Team Options
Togekiss @ Sitrus Berry / Yache Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 244 HP / 132 Def / 4 SpA / 116 SpD / 12 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Air Slash
- Follow Me
- Tailwind- Heat Wave / Flamethrower / Helping Hand / Imprison / Protect
SpoilerTogekiss @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
Level: 50
EVs: 244 HP / 132 Def / 4 SpA / 116 SpD / 12 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Air Slash
- Heat Wave
- Follow Me
- TailwindGarchomp's partner-in-crime from 3 years ago makes a comeback, with earthquake immunity and access to a perfect support movepool, Togekiss is the partner of choice. Serene Grace+Air Slash is a fantastic combo for supporting Garchomp, as Togekiss can flinch any threat to Garchomp with a 60% success rate. Add to that access to follow me, Garchomp is safe to set up against almost every threat. The one drawback is that both Garchomp and Togekiss share a weakness to Ice, so moves like Blizzard are the best counterplay to this combo. Heat Wave is very useful for dealing with Steel types such as Bronzong, which take no damage from Garchomp's coverage, and Togekiss' wealth of support options give it plenty of moves to choose from when building a team around this combo. Imprison can be useful against other Toge-Chomp combos, cancelling the opponent's Togekiss and allowing Garchomp to be single-targeted. Other options include Softboiled for recovery, and Helping Hand for a power boost.
EV Details:
This set is built around the fact that Togekiss' Special Defense stat at level 50 reaches an "n+1" number with 116+ SpD EVs. Coincidentally, this stat number also guarantees survival against Sniper Kingdra sets (which rose to prominence back in 2020). 12 Speed EVs allow it to reach a total of 102 speed, which outspeeds base 130s under tailwind by 4 points, providing a vital speed creep against other pokemon which only just outspeed base 130s (i.e. 101 speed Pokemon typically include 84 EV base 70s such as Metagross, Ludicolo and Hitmontop)
- 252+ SpA Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. 244 HP / 116+ SpD Togekiss: 120-144 (62.8 - 75.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- 252+ SpA Dragon Gem Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 244 HP / 116+ SpD Togekiss: 129-153 (67.5 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- 252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 244 HP / 116+ SpD Togekiss on a critical hit: 162-190 (84.8 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Zapdos @ Electric Gem / Sitrus Berry
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 140 HP / 252 SpA / 116 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Discharge
- Thunderbolt
- Heat Wave
- Tailwind / Roost / DetectSpoilerZapdos @ Electric Gem
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 140 HP / 252 SpA / 116 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Discharge
- Thunderbolt
- Heat Wave
- TailwindZapdos, Garchomp's new partner-in-crime, faces big competition with Togekiss. Having all three pokemon on the same team means that you risk making the team 3x weak to Ice type moves, so I would recommend making a choice between Togekiss or Zapdos. Zapdos and Garchomp make a great combo with Discharge and Earthquake respectively, as well as access to heat wave coverage for troublesome steel types. Zapdos also doesn't provide Garchomp any defensive support, so it will require set up support from another team member, such as fake out support from Hitmontop, for example. Stealth Rock Garchomp, on the other hand, is an excellent partner to Zapdos, which doesn't require a swords dance set up. Move choices here are quite self-explanatory, with electric gem to boost its offensive coverage. The Speed EVs guarantee that it outspeeds 252 Spe Mamoswine, with maximum special attack investment.
Other Team Members
Sand Veil Garchomp is very annoying do deal with - an extra 20% evasion boost, on top of any imperfect accuracy moves can be the difference between winning and losing. Tyranitar is also currently one of the best checks to Zapdos, with its STAB super-effective Rock Slides. A very common face of the doubles metagame, you'll likely see Tyranitar on many Garchomp teams.
SpoilerTyranitar @ Life Orb / Chople Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 212 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Slide
- Crunch
- Superpower
- Protect
Another great support option, Hitmontop will likely be your secondary set up option with its access to fake out. Fighting STAB gives it a good option for most Ice types, and intimidate enables it to weaken many offensive threats, such as opposing Garchomp.
SpoilerHitmontop (M) @ Fighting Gem
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 236 HP / 252 Atk / 20 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Close Combat
- Feint
- Wide Guard
Scizor is another set up sweeper which can be very useful as a back up option for Garchomp. It's able to easily switch in on Ice types such as Abomasnow or Mamoswine, with immediate pressure from a super effective Steel Gem-boosted Bullet Punch. Like Garchomp, it also has a 4x weakness, so care should be taken when facing potential fire type attacks.
SpoilerScizor @ Steel Gem
Ability: Technician
EVs: 204 HP / 252 Atk / 52 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Bug Bite
- Swords Dance
- Protect
Metagross is another great switch-in option for ice type attacks, but it has to be very careful of Earthquake from a partner Garchomp, or from opposing Mamoswine. With Assault Gear, it becomes very easy for Metagross to tank a Blizzard, but it is unable to use protect, so it may be useful to consider alternative items.
SpoilerMetagross @ Assault Vest
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Meteor Mash / Heavy Slam
- Zen Headbutt / Psycho Cut
- Earthquake / Ice Punch
- Bullet Punch
Rotom-Wash is a fantastic partner to Garchomp, with earthquake immunity and access to great support options such as Will-O-Wisp to neutralise opposing Garchomp, or even Ally Switch to catch your opponent off guard. Rotom can also run a trick+choice scarf set if your team is lacking a counter to trick room.
Nasty Plot
SpoilerRotom-Wash @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 232 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 20 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Hydro Pump
- Nasty Plot
- Protect
Ally Switch Support
SpoilerRotom-Wash @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 232 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 20 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt / Discharge
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp
- Ally SwitchChoice Scarf
SpoilerRotom-Wash @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 32 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 220 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Hydro Pump
- Electroweb / Discharge / Hidden Power [Ice]
- TrickOther Options
Milotic, with its Competitive ability, allows Garchomp to face intimidate users such as Salamence or Hitmontop which also check other common team members such as Scizor and Tyranitar.
Bisharp, with its ability Defiant, can also provide similar support to Garchomp.Checks and Counters
As mentioned, Mamoswine and Abomasnow are likely to emerge as the "anti-meta" this season, with access to powerful Ice coverage. Abomasnow will likely need Trick Room support, which also threatens Garchomp, so partners that can handle both, such as Scizor, are greatly appreciated.
A prime trick room setter which takes very little damage from Garchomp's attacks, Bronzong is a great check. Access to hypnosis, stealth rock, toxic and more, it is a great support option.
Expect to see Abomasnow as a partner to Bronzong!
Ice Beam, Icy Wind and Hidden Power [Ice] users are going to be your typical answers to Garchomp, and I would say that at least one powerful ice type attack should be present on every team, to deal with Garchomp teams. Zapdos is particularly noteworthy, as it can also deal with Togekiss with a powerful Thunderbolt whilst being immune to Earthquake.
Sample Teams
So with all this in mind, here is my suggestion of a basic team for Swords Dance Garchomp.
To recap, the flowchart as suggested by @OrangeManiac for the first 4 Pokemon should be:
Garchomp
Togekiss OR Zapdos
Rotom-Wash / Rotom-Heat
Steel Type
Team 1: Garchomp Set-Up
https://pokepast.es/626bf23560cbacf6
SpoilerGarchomp @ Yache Berry
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Swords Dance
- Protect
Togekiss @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 244 HP / 132 Def / 4 SpA / 116 SpD / 12 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Air Slash
- Heat Wave
- Follow Me
- Tailwind
Tyranitar @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 212 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Slide
- Crunch
- Superpower
- Protect
Hitmontop (M) @ Fighting Gem
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 236 HP / 252 Atk / 20 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Close Combat
- Feint
- Wide Guard
Scizor @ Steel Gem
Ability: Technician
EVs: 204 HP / 252 Atk / 52 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Bug Bite
- Swords Dance
- Protect
Rotom-Wash @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 232 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 20 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Hydro Pump
- Nasty Plot
- ProtectTeam 2: ZapChomp
https://pokepast.es/19b120d70fc7b0d9
SpoilerGarchomp @ Focus Sash
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Swords Dance
- ProtectZapdos @ Electric Gem
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 140 HP / 252 SpA / 116 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Discharge
- Thunderbolt
- Heat Wave
- TailwindTyranitar @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 212 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Slide
- Crunch
- Superpower
- ProtectHitmontop (M) @ Fighting Gem
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 236 HP / 252 Atk / 20 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Close Combat
- Feint
- Wide GuardMetagross @ Assault Vest
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Zen Headbutt
- Earthquake
- Bullet PunchRotom-Wash @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 32 SpA / 4 SpD / 220 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Electroweb
- Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- TrickThanks for reading!
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16 hours ago, Munya said:
With the addition of complex bans we are currently discussing giving SD back to Garchomp as well as returning Shadow Tag to its unnerfed state. If anybody has anything they would like to say about either of those things.
Very grateful for this, it would give the doubles metagame a good shake up, zapdos+garchomp are going to be even more popular than they already are...
11 hours ago, VadimEmpoleon said:I think SD Garchomp would be fine for Doubles, earthquake is a multi-target move so it doesn't hit as hard as in singles.
Regarding Shadow Tag, this ability is uncompetitive in Singles and in its nerfed state it is not good enough, I don't think there is any fix possible for Shadow Tag on Singles so reverting it back to its unnerfed state and making it only playable in Doubles seems like a good idea.
It would also be a good idea to consider adding Speed Boost Blaziken and Shaymin Sky for Doubles, I am not sure if they would be too broken though.Shaymin Sky may be a bit too much for the doubles meta at the moment - STAB serene grace seed flare and air slash make it really deadly in the right hands. It does however get walled by zapdos, and metagross unless it runs earth power
@OrangeManiac thoughts on this?
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Pelipper (A -> A-)
Porygon2 (A -> A-)
Bronzong (B+)
Gastrodon (B+)
Conkeldurr (B+)
Gigalith (B+) -
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Time to add some legendary Pokemon to the rankings!
Changes made according to the discord server are as follows:
Raikou
A- Tier
Entei
B+ Tier
Suicune
A Tier
Articuno
Unranked (C Tier)
Zapdos
A Tier
Moltres
Unranked (C Tier)
Let me know your thoughts!
Also, what are our thoughts on Pokemon like Bronzong, Gastrodon, Conkeldurr and Gigalith?
They've been seeing some success recently!
I also would like to put the following Pokemon on the rankings:
Nidoqueen
B Tier
Nidoking
B Tier
Charizard
B- Tier
Exeggutor
B- Tier
Let me know if you agree with these changes and I'll add them to the rankings!
- Zuladra, PKTxKharma, Necroze and 2 others
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Brilliant work!!
Yeah you just go to this site: https://flathub.org/apps/com.pokemmo.PokeMMO
Click install and it's done
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2 hours ago, ThugLifeAnxo said:
Could i get a team without gems or focus sash? i dont like consumables items and i love DOubles, but i dont know where to start
You could try this!
https://pokepast.es/0b947f4be70b467f
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The PvP Statistics page is one of the most useful data resources in the game for people trying to get into competitive play, or for existing competitive players who need to analyse the metagame.
However, when using the PvP Statistics page, I can't help but feel that the amount of information being displayed is lacking. I expect this is a common feeling for a lot of competitive players.
I suggest that the following data should be collected and displayed on the menu to improve it even further:
Top Moves
Example Taken from Pikalytics.com (VGC 2023 Ranked Statistics)
What moves should a Pokemon have? This is such an important decision for every player to consider, Pikalytics lists it as the most relevant PvP statistic next to stat distribution!
In my own favourite meta, Doubles, it's really important to know if a Pokemon should use the move Protect, especially for newer players, as they would typically be used to using movesets from the singles format.
Tournament vs Matchmaking Usage Data
What works well in matchmaking may not work as well in tournament settings.
This is currently recognized by the fact that usage% is listed as either in matchmaking or tournament, which varies for some Pokemon (e.g Rotom-Heat is currently used in 2% of Doubles matchmaking teams, and 5.56% (nearly 3 times as much) of tournament teams), so it would be beneficial to know the reasons for differences in player choices when preparing for matchmaking or tournaments.
Again, Pikalytics has this option available for all players to see.
Usage Data from Top #100 Matchmaking Players
Usage data from the top players would be a really interesting set of statistics. Again, for the Doubles format, lots of new players are going to be using their OU teams, which means that some popular OU Pokemon are typically ranked higher in usage% than in win% for Doubles (*cough* garchomp *cough*), so a separate set of usage data from the top #100 players may prove to be beneficial for people new to the metagame. It would also be very useful for top players to analyse shifts in the metagame at the highest level of play!
It might even be worth thinking about implementing usage data from the top cuts of Tournaments, too.
Common EV Spreads
Another popular data set, Common EV Spreads are a great way to know how to prioritise stat distribution for pokemon for which it isn't obvious. For example, how many HP EVs should you invest in Rotom-Wash if it only has 50 base HP - but you also want to invest in Speed and Special Attack? Having this information readily available would be really great for players who are learning the metagame.
That's all I can think of for now!
I hope this suggestion can make PokeMMO a much more accessible game to get into competitively for newer players, and for top players to refine their game 🙂
I'd also love to know your suggestions!
Particularly from the singles format, as I don't have much experience with it, and I'd love to know what would be useful for you!
Thanks,
Rakhmaninov
- Shadow, JohntheJester, AnbuItxchi and 11 others
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Doubles Sample Teams
in Competition Alley
Posted
Good point, the thread needs updating!
With the introduction of Zapdos and Swords Dance Garchomp, the metagame has shifted...