LifeStyleNORE

Huhhhh, no? Maybe you should read the post again.

ok

@Kyu yes? no? maybe?

@Umbramol

Assuming devs didn't break replays again with the Sinnoh update

More like just ban Arena Trap in every tier/format. And Shadow Tag too.

Looks amazing

Devs won't use hack-roms

bumpies \^.^/ <3

To be fair, every draft was shit

"I want to thank all the staff for helping me on getting back my Gyarados. God bless you."

You can still use them in OU.

Because ladder noobs use Torterra and whatever else. I assume once the new toys hype dies out then usage looks normal again

But they're relevant for a team tournament that happens before the end of a month (and tier changes should happen after)

NU literally has like 5+ new mons and 2 important ones moving up

Not uber

After TT only please...

I mean, +1 Passho Berry Volca can't ohko Azu anyways so Azu still wins the matchup. That was not the point I was trying to make anyways. I don't think you know what Uncompetitive means to be quite honest and it's obvious you just want Chomp gone as a whole for some reason.

UU now has 3 viable ice shard users (Abomasnow, Weavile, Mamoswine), Forretress, Mandibuzz, CB Dugtrio, Sucker Punchers, etc. Think Haxorus is fine, weak to every form of hazards too.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Roserade Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mantine: 70-84 (36.4 - 43.7%) -- 37.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery meh. Roserade is really annoying tbh, having to run like Mantine+Bronzor to deal with that shit is not ok

Where? Yeah, I know Smooth Rock is not common and it's not an item I would even consider using. But it's a possibility regardless. Tyranitar had 13.38% and Hippo had 7.25%, in a month where people got new toys to play with so I'd say they're common enough for Chomp's ability to be working. I would bother searching for replays where Garchomp won a match ONLY because of Sand Veil, but the replay system in this game is too trash and time-consuming so uhhh, no thanks. Flame Orb Milotic is a counter, Bronzong is a counter, Mandibuzz is a counter, though they all depend on what set Garchomp is running. The one thing they have in common is that all of them can lose to Sand Veil. I don't get how Rough Skin makes Chomp more difficult to deal with than Sand Veil, if anything it would probably tempt people to run more defensive sets for Chomp. Scarf Tyranitar is not a Volcarona counter. +1 252 SpA Life Orb Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 205-244 (116.4 - 138.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO Running Stone Edge is a risk that YOU choose to make, not something taken completely off your hands to a lucky SV miss. But since you mention Volcarona, let me demonstrate this example. Volcarona is against a Ferrothorn, you switch into CB Azumarill and Volcarona goes +1. All good right? I mean Azumarill has Aqua Jet so you're fine. 252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 180-212 (112.5 - 132.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO Now imagine that Volcarona has Sand Veil and sandstorm is up. You miss Aqua Jet and this happens. +1 252 SpA Life Orb Volcarona Giga Drain vs. 168 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 205-244 (104.5 - 124.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO Now apply this to Garchomp on any similar scenario.

I'd drop PorygonZ and Haxorus and just see how they play out. Not sure if Zoroark will be too much for NU, Honchkrow can stay in UU. Fuck Honchkrow. Everything else seems fine. Ban Tickle on Wobbu.

I already said that Garchomp is the one true abuser of Sand Veil (and to some extent, Gliscor). That ability becomes more uncompetitive the stronger its user is. The reason you don't see Sand Veil Chomp being broken in non perma weather metas, is because non perma weather became a thing in gen6, and along with that fairy type was introduced. Ok, name them then. Those 5 turns can be 8 and you can actually just abuse Sand Veil Chomp if your opponent is running Hippo or Tyranitar, which I believe most teams do? So being able to potentially setup on a counter's face and kill it because the said counter is missing its moves is not a big deal?

1. Scarf Togekiss is garbage, literally the worst set Togekiss can run. I can actually name x10 answers to scarf kiss than to NP roost kiss. 2. You obviously don't get the difference between RNG and Uncompetitive. Until you do, there's no point arguing any longer. 3. Out of everything you named, only "always hit moves" are relevant, and as I've said before, the options are limited and not viable against Chomp. Aerial Ace? lol. As if I never knew that Ice moves kill a Garchomp, how does that matter when they miss? While they should be hitting 100% of the time? Sure, you can change weather, but going to Pelipper gives Chomp a free sub anyways, which probably results in a free kill afterwards.

I think it's a bit silly to compare Serene Grace with Sand Veil. Serene Grace, coupled with Air Slash gives Togekiss a 60% chance to flinch slower opponents. You have various options of dealing with a Togekiss. You can choose to run something that deals with Togekiss (after a setup) effectively, such as SPDef Aerodactyl, Timid Haze Milotic, Timid PainSplit Rotom or even SPDef Haze Dragonite with Inner Focus. Don't even get me started on the offensive side, plus the fact that Togekiss loses 25% HP to Rocks. Sand Veil on the other hand, completely removes the game from your hands. It can turn situations in which you should have won a matchup into a loss, because Garchomp just killed your counter after setting up a SD behind a Sub or dodging your revenge killer move. What option do you have against Sand Veil? Run Aerial Ace? Aura Sphere? Not to mention that Garchomp already has way more limited options for checks/counters than a Togekiss... No, I'm asking to remove an aspect that makes Garchomp uncompetitive. We have an Evasion Clause that only mentions the use of moves that increase Evasion (i.e. Double Team, Minimize) and an OP Item Clause in which we have Brightpowder, that also increases Evasion. Maybe I should have made a Suggestion to just ban Sand Veil / Snow Cloak, but I think it's been settled that Sand Veil is only uncompetitive on Garchomp because of the nature of the mon as a whole. I recommend that you search for keyword "Garchomp" on this link and see for yourself. https://www.smogon.com/tiers/ou/ban_history (tl;dr - Garchomp was banned because of Sand Veil, then Sand Veil was banned, then Garchomp was brought back because it gained a new ability in Rough Skin). I don't think we need to go with the same route though, because again, only Sand Veil Garchomp is broken (and sometimes, Gliscor I guess). As for your Focus Blast/Stone Edge argument, when you choose to run moves like those, you assume the risk of using them (Lower accuracy for more power). Losing to Sand Veil on the other hand, has nothing to do with that..