JorgeFirebolt

Rip togekiss

XD

Take InuYashaL vs Pablobacas (perdoname inu).

Take

Seems like they dont even know what hydreigon, togekiss, conkeldurr, haxorus and garchomp are used for.

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/kings-rock-is-now-banned-from-bw-ou.3687288/unread

So your argument is "it's unhealthy 'cause the amout of time wasted". The question is what you take as unhealthy on PvP, i'll list you some reasons why stall ain't unhealthy: 1. Stall is a way to play, you can hate it or like it, but it's a teambuilding strategy. 2. There's no way to avoid walls inside a metage, it's like so dumb to ask a wall limit, how you ensure a mon is a wall, because of their usage? Excuse me sir, there's also Pokemons which are sweepers and walls at the same time, here's some fast examples: Salamence (mixed sweeper, physical wall) Dragonite (Mixed, band, rain abuser, dragon dance, wall, etc...) Garchomp (same as dnite but spdef wall with toxic and stealth rock) Gliscor (SD Acrobatics, Taunt rock setter physical wall) Blissey (Calm mind, Cleric user spdef wall) Pelipper (Scarf user, physical wall rain setter) Rotom-wash (has millions of sweeper sets as nasty plot rotom, or scarf/specs, also it's a physical/spdef wall, most viable mon out there to play OU) Rotom-mow (same as rotom-wash but less viable by it's typing, still a good sweeper and also a good physical wall as a secondary wall mon) Tyranitar (Spdef rock setter or even any kind of sweeper set) Said this and proved that, you can see there's literally no way to prove noone of those can be a wall or a sweeper, it's literally limitating everyone's imagination to just play what the meta usage says, and that's not how good players are born my friend, good players get born by using surprising and new sets which actually are here to break the metagame, this doesn't mean you need to use a shitty mon in OU which has 0 viability when there's a better option for that role you're searching for inside your team lol. 3. Stall has counters, the problem is players are closed to think about stall is posible to appear inside a duel, but I always have some stall counters on my teams as taunt users or setup sweepers who can stop some stalls, even good wallbreakers, thing is some players ain't used to think about the possibility stall is something that exist and you need to stop it. and IG that's it, to summarize, adding a wall limit (which is impossible in any kind of way) ain't healthy, that would limitate player creativity and criteria at teambuilding and limitate them to 2 kinds of ways to build, Hyperoffensive and balance, and let's be honest, in most of cases, Hyperoffensive vs a good balance can be stopped, still, Hyperoffensive teams are made to end with stalls with hazard setting and wallbreakers/stallbreakers/sweepers. So @CREELAST rethink your petition about adding a limit of walls and you will see you're wrong, let this game have creativity freedom as any kind of competitive scheme, showdown players ain't crying about the fact of having 1000 turns duels, and they play on higher levels than the average of this game, trust me. Anyways, wish this helped you to see Zekns, Huargensy and my point of view, or every person who answered to this post about stall not being unhealthy (mentioned the phew I read).

Venusaur feeling sad about you calling me a copypaster 😞 Imagine being your only valid argument against mines that I copypaste teams (which sadly you're wrong about it lmao).

Those aint even counters, only lucario is a counter off that list you mentioned, also, who uses blaziken on this metagame with infernape being the fire physical dominating threat, nape and blaziken are only checks to cloyster, you need to learn the difference in between check and counter.

Lol, you're obsessed with my OU team or what? Haven't you seen a Venusaur in OU in your life or a weavile sweeping? LMAO, what's wrong with it bro? Let Venusaur #1 and chill. Btw, since you're sick and impatient to know what my team is, it's a pure balance, with 3 walls, 1 SpDef wall (which resists mostly all special attackers and stop setup special sweepers), 2 Def walls (Venusaur as an status blocker and wores off toxic spikes if needed while walls some threats and it's able to set up some damage and resist some OU threats, and Hippowdon, the most common physical weather control in all OU behind Tyranitar, which I use to wear off setup sweepers such as lefto spdef conkeldurr, dragonite DD, etc.....), then we have 1 scarf trick user which I use as speed control, rotom-wash scarf, which is an amazing way to start a duel, while in the other hand the 2 other pokes are one of them an amazing wallbreaker (Conkeldurr allout attacker) and then we got Weavile as a sweeper, now stop crying and complaining about my team being full of walls, your arguments are trash and based on "Stall is disgusting, so I dont arguee with stall players eksdee". Now that I proved you that my OU team ain't filled of walls, stop complaining, crying, and calling all the players you see using a balance wall lovers. Oh, btw, all the teams I use are made by me, so stop accusing me of copypasting OU teams, I literally built everything I used on this game (Can't tell the same on Gen7OU, but that's not the case, this is MMO OU). Idk where you saw a team like mine, but I did teambuild that team after I won the seasonal tournament seeing the leak of defensive things I had with gengar + gliscor, so this is like a V2 of the team I used on the seasonal tournament #1. Anyways, won't waste more time with you, you're a sick player which your arguments are based on accusing me to be a copypaste stall user, while all your accusations are wrong sadly lmao, next time, elaborate some better stuff and try not slandering me. And about the player who posted a clip of me winning a BR twitch streamer, what's wrong with me winning someone on rankeds with a team made by me with good moves? Didn't know that was illegal bro, sorry. And I think this is my last answer, here's my opinion on "stall is unhealthy": Stall, as Offensive teams or Balance teams, are a way to build, building is healthy, Cloyster having an RNG chance to fuck and ruin your duel isn't healthy. You need to learn to let everyone build whatever the heck they want to and let them use what they want respecting the metagame, that's what you got wrong, you think this game is based off in stall which most players use balance/offense on tournaments to win in early rounds while stall in finals (But that's some cases, Balance is more frequent in all your rounds if you watch them carefully), since a Balance with a good taunt user can stop an stall, and an Offensive with a nice wallbreaker or stallbreaker can trash a whole stall with 1 setup move (Hydreigon for example trashes lots of stall teams being at +2). To summarize, you're defending something that limitates players to build balance and offense, and that's unhealthy, you can't limitate players to build whatever you want them to build, let them build in any style they want, I agree stall can be a shit to deal with, but my friend, even on the team I've shown you which is a balance, I've ways to end vs a stall, if you haven't won a stall in your life, it's because you're mind closed and haven't seen any good stallbreaker/wallbreaker. That's it, wish you learn your points are wrong and trying to slander me on a public post was a big error. See ya

lmao, cause literally in all over the OU metagame there's only 1 solid counter which can survive after a flinch, I feel like you aint reading my answers, cause this is like the 5th time I said this, if cloyster had no king's rock, it would have the same amount of counters togekiss has nowadays on OU. My point is cloyster is a luck-based mon that with shell-smash that gives him an amazing speedcontrol + nice attack combined with skill link and using a hax item which benefits him a lot (41% to flinch if hit rock blast or icicle Spear which is insane) makes him only have 1 damn solid counter in OU which its usage is low as fuck and has a small viability, this mon is called "Lucario", 4% of usage in season 4, and was close to drop to UU if it wasnt about it has no solid counters or good entries against it. Now please, I tell you to read patiently all my answers, and ig that's it.

That set is easier to wall than nasty plot, I'll stop discussing with you since you're comparing a threat with 1 counter with another pokemon that has around 3-4 solid counters in OU

Togekiss has way more counters that can outspeed it than cloyster. Literally togekiss can be stopped by lots of OU mons

So time to start answering this posts, as I said i'd be open to answer an against argument, and I will. "-Because of the lack of Hidden Ability's and Legendary, the meta game has become very defensive, There aren't many ways to punish opponent switches other than Pursuit and Stealth Rocks, as moves like Knock Off and Outrage have been heavily nerfed." OU metagame is dominated by Balance teams, not by stall. Balance teams > Offensive teams Defensive teams > Balance teams Offensive teams > Defensive teams As you can see all the kind of cores can be destroyed by another one. Balance includes all kind of balances, offensive teams like bulky offense, HO or standard Offense can end with a stall team easily. "-Skarmory+Blissey+Rotom-> This core is so fucking famous and is in most balance teams in pvp. " Based easy core that gets destroyed with magnezone + any fighting type. (In answer to all your calcs): This is where you give me a point, as I said, cloyster has lots of ways to get countered, but what if cloyster from nowhere does a flinch thanks to it's abusive 41% chance to flinch a mon lol, even with ice shard you have a 10% to flinch, the only solid counter inside those calcs (which I answered you with that as a counter on my whisps) is any kind of lucario set with priority. "-The vast majority of nerfs in PVP are Offensive Pokemon, such as Swords Dance+Garchomp and Draco Meteor+Hydreigon, so i think if the keep nerfing it the meta game will just get slower and boring" Lol, those got banned for the same reason king's rock will get banned for, they're abusive and their counters are used a few only. In regard, if you defend that "cloyster is ez to wall", check the ONLY SOLID COUNTER cloyster has on OU usage is (Close to drop to UU, but didn't drop, so it's UUBL I think, i'll rectifiy if I'm wrong about it's an UUBL rn). To summarize my arguments against yours: Any kind of team can be played right now on OU, and OU ain't boring, your analysis is wrong, you are limitated to only-ou mons, there's millions of UU/NU mons who're really viable on OU and which are about to rise to OU. Examples: Venusaur, Weavile, Crobat, Heracross, Aerodactyl, Roserade, etc... (Need to say only weavile and aerodactyl about to go up to OU, I don't think the rest will, only heracross has a chance.) And about "Lol cloyster got lots of solid counters", yknow how annoying is to have a nice counter and well built team vs cloyster and get flinched? All your calcs have the risk to lose against a flinch (except conkeldurr, which I consider a good check to cloyster too), it only has 1 damn solid counter at it has a shitty usage due to its lack of viability in OU nowadays if not used inside an Offense team.

Ok so i'll start with your post since you pissed mf off a lot. "You use 4 pokemons walls". Your wrong. There's 3 walls on my team, if you were smart enough and saw the whole battle you would know that ROTOM AINT A WALL ON MY TEAM, rotom is a trick-scarf user. The only 3 walls on my team (which is the main core) milotic, hippowdon, and venusaur. Second off, don't get offtopic, this isn't about my team and how I teambuild, if you get pissed cause I win with good teambuilding, complain to someone else, not to me or in a public post sharing a twitch clip of a streamer losing vs me, that's really disrespectfull from your part, even more when someone comes to my whisp BECAUSE I WON A DAMN RANKED DUEL with a balanced team vs a cloyster. Third off, i'll answer later when I've time your view points in favor of cloyster ARE REALLY WRONG, don't get me wrong, but, that's what I think, if you think lucario is the only solid counter, go ahead, see it's usage and how it was about to fall to UU.